Re: Heart Rate

["Robert Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>]

Truman: To some extent you are correct; <<<One final point at a canter the
horse may actually take in more oxygen
> in its lungs than when it trots.  So it order to supply the oxygen to
> the muscles at the trot it has to raise it heart rate.>>>

This intake of oxygen is a function of the stride also. The heart and lungs
tend to work in rhythm with the stride. (pace is a word with so many
different meanings is why I did not use it) Trot is a faster stride i.e.
more movements of a leg per minute and the heart and lungs use that rhythm
to assist in functioning. Thus a faster heart beat. Canter with fewer
strides (but longer) elicits a slower heart beat. Remember also, it is not
just the number of beats that supplies the oxygen to the body but the
volume of the beat (stroke). \

Hard to explain exactly as I am not fully conversant with the physiological
terms.

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

----------
> From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
> To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
> Cc: Jerald Thiessen <thiesj@tdbank.ca>
> Subject: Re: Heart Rate
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 6:20 PM
> 
> We have been trying to deal with this hurricane down here so I haven't
> had time to address Bob's post.  I think heart rate has been pretty much
> tied to the oxygen requirement which is directly related to the energy
> requirement.  If the same energy is used at a trot and a center, I
> cannot see how stride length enters into the equation.  
> 
> Any physical system - and a biological is first and formost a physical
> system - obeys the "law of least action".  The law of least action may
> really be the only true physical law - the rest being manafestations of
> this.  This basically states that any physical system will come to a
> state where the minimal energy is required.  This has been given the
> term resonance.
> 
> If a horse gallops at 15 mph at 120 and trots at 15 mph at 150, then he
> will try to gallop. I believe that Lew Hollander even covers this in his
> book under the term of resonance riding.   
> 
> I you trot while conditioning then you are not properly conditioning the
> muscle groups necessary for cantering.  So if you canter in the ride
> then you surly have more trouble coming to parameters.  I try to ride
> like I condition and condition like I ride.  
> 
> That is why I mix it up and do a little bit of everything in riding and
> conditioning.
> 
> One final point at a canter the horse may actually take in more oxygen
> in its lungs than when it trots.  So it order to supply the oxygen to
> the muscles at the trot it has to raise it heart rate.
> 
> Truman
> 
> 
> 
> Jerald Thiessen wrote:
> > 
> > Thank you for the input;
> > I guess my question is not clear . I was trying to establish which gait
is the most
> > efficient and or why the heart rate is faster at a trot than canter.
Bob Morris'
> > answer regarding the heart rate in relation to rate of the stride is
the key I think
> > I am looking for.
> > 
> > So next question then is if the heart rate is based on the stride and
not on the the
> > oxygen requirement, then would the horse possibly not be using all the
oxygen and
> > there for going at  an aerobic burn at the trot ,while at the same
speed at the
> > canter the horse may be anaerobic and there for explaining the higher
heart rate at
> > the trot while maintaining  the ability to pulse down quickly or
quicker than if he
> > was cantered???
> > 
> > I am trying to make sense of this variance and I appreciate all the
help.
> > 
> > Jerald
> > 
> > Truman Prevatt wrote:
> > 
> > > I change gaits often.  This allows the use of different muscle groups
in
> > > different ways - in both the horse and rider.  I know lots of people
say
> > > "you should pick a pace and stay with it".  Well that is not for me,
I
> > > mix it up, trot, canter, gallop and walk.  I let the terrain, the
> > > climate conditions and how things are going - including the HRM, how
I
> > > feel, the phase of the moon and the sun spot activity determine what
> > > gait I do when.
> > >
> > > Works for me.
> > >
> > > Truman
> > >
> > > Jerald Thiessen wrote:
> > > snip
> > >
> > > > While I agree with the logic that I should being cantering because
his heart
> > > > rate is lower, I also know that I can get more mileage out of him
on a given
> > > > day at the trot.  He has been conditioned to the point where I have
done a 12
> > > > mile medium canter on him without causing him undo stress as he
pulsed down in
> > > > under 10 minutes. I believe my horse is well conditioned at both
gaits, so
> > > > bottom line, at an endurance pace which gait do most of you find
more
> > > > efficient? Does anyone else's horse have a higher pulse at the trot
than at
> > > > the canter or is it something that only happens in Canada?
> > > >
> > > > Jerald
> > > >
> > > > Kim wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:04:02 -0600, Jerald Thiessen
<thiesj@tdbank.ca>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I was having a discussion the other day on a training ride with
a friend
> > > > > > and we started talking about stress on a horses legs and
cardiovascular
> > > > > > systems. I  believe that trotting puts more stress on the legs
but was
> > > > > > easier on the cardiovascular system.My friend disagreed with me
and
> > > > > > raised a very good point. If trotting is easier on the
cardiovascular
> > > > > > system then why  does the heart rate go up when I pull the
horse from a
> > > > > > canter(120bpm) to  a trot (140bpm) and vice a versus when
trotting if
> > > > > > we go to a canter the heart rate drops.
> > > > >
> > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > > > >
> > > > > Every gait has a point, or speed, which delivers the most work
for the
> > > > > least amount of oxygen (which would determine cardiac output). 
Each
> > > > > gait has a certain speed which uses the least amount of oxygen
compared
> > > > > to other speeds at that -same- gait.  You could push the horse to
a
> > > > > faster speed at that gait, but he would require more oxygen to
maintain
> > > > > that speed.  And, on the other end of the spectrum, you could
slow a
> > > > > horse down at the same gait, and he would require more oxygen
because he
> > > > > is not working efficiently --- he would require more oxygen to
move 1
> > > > > meter down the trail.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, each gait has it's own "optimal" speed, which requires the
least
> > > > > amount of oxygen for the horse.  Endurance riders will find this
speed
> > > > > after time --- this is the pace your horse tends to "settle" into
during
> > > > > a consistant-speed conditioning ride.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, if you compare the oxygen requirements at a trot to a canter
AT THE
> > > > > SAME SPEED, one of these gaits is going to be very inefficent in
oxygen
> > > > > use.  This depends on the particular horse and the speed which
you are
> > > > > comparing.  Seems like in Jerald's example, the horse was moving
faster
> > > > > than the "optimal" point for his trot, which increased his heart
rate
> > > > > compared to the next step up, which was the canter.  Since the
canter
> > > > > had a lower heart rate at the same speed, this speed was better
suited
> > > > > for this gait (in terms of oxygen needs).  Horses, when left to
their
> > > > > own devices, will automatically select the optimal gait for a
particular
> > > > > speed --- it's just more comfortable for them.  But, humans ask
them to
> > > > > collect a canter to a very slow speed, or preform an extended
trot while
> > > > > showing, etc. where both are inefficient uses of oxygen for the
horse.
> > > > > But, you usually won't find this occurring often with endurance
horses
> > > > > for a long period of time ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding forces applied by both gaits:
> > > > >
> > > > > The trot and the canter do not have a *huge* difference in the
overall
> > > > > amount of force, but what is interesting is how individual legs
receive
> > > > > this force.  Since the trot is *just about* symmetrical (two legs
> > > > > contact the ground at once, with just a split second difference),
the
> > > > > horse does not experience a huge force "spike" when the initial
hoof
> > > > > hits the ground. The second hoof takes up a good portion of that
force
> > > > > as soon as it hits as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > The canter, on the other hand, does have an inital "spike" when
the
> > > > > horse moves from suspension (in the air) to when the hind hoof
hits the
> > > > > ground.  The timing between the first and second hoof contacting
the
> > > > > ground is greater.  Also, measurements have shown that while the
> > > > > non-lead foreleg of the cantering horse recieves more force
compared to
> > > > > the trot, the lead foreleg actually sees a reduction of about
20%.
> > > > >
> > > > > The gallop is a whole different story, and can generate a whole
lot of
> > > > > force --- I'll stay out of that one since it usually is not the
choice
> > > > > of gait for endurance riders :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone needs the research references, just let me know.  Hope
it
> > > > > helps!
> > > > >
> > > > > Kim (and the ground-poundin' Lee)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Truman Prevatt
> > > Mystic “The Horse from Hell” Storm
> > > Rocket a.k.a. Mr. Misty
> > > Jordy a.k.a. Bridger (when he is good)
> > > Danson Flame - hey dad I'm well now and ready to go!
> > >
> > > Brooksville, FL
> 
> -- 
> Truman Prevatt
> Mystic “The Horse from Hell” Storm
> Rocket a.k.a. Mr. Misty
> Jordy a.k.a. Bridger (when he is good)
> Danson Flame - hey dad I'm well now and ready to go!
> 
> Brooksville, FL
>