Re: endurance horse price -ridecamp-d Digest V98 #720

["Maria/Phil Hanby" <maphh@cowland.com>]

Heidi,

I thank you for your reply and I agree with much of it, 
but I need to clarify why I wrote what I did. 

I would think that as a veterinarian you might also understand where I am
coming from.  (I also am from the east and we have different experiences
from those in other parts of this country; nothing is always black or
white,right or wrong.)


> <<  IMHO the BLM is doing both the equine population and
>  the taxpayer a favor.  >>
> 
> I guess I will have to disagree about the taxpayer part.  The BLM spends
> thousands of tax dollars per horse to capture, feed, and house these
horses.
> Some are adopted out at the price of $125.  

I agree that $125 is not a money making price to request for a sound
equine, but most adoption agencies are not there to make $$.  They are 
there to provide sound, healthy and useable animals an alternative to being
euthanized.  Most of the adoption agencies I know start out asking for a
minimum donation of $300. 

I hope that the new trial format BLM has started using (silent
bidding) will bring in more money for these horses.  They are worth more
than the current asking rate of $125.  But this program was not set up to
be such.  It was started to reduce the number of wild horses and provide
the taxpayer with a healthy useable mount.

>Some are not adoptable and are kept at taxpayer expense for long periods 
>of time because of our cultural squeamishness about selling them for
slaughter. 
>Not a good deal for the taxpayer at all.  True, it would also not be a
good deal to have them out
> ruining other resources.  I have no objection to people buying these
horses,
> but the taxpayer would be far better served if the whole program was
turned
> over to private enterprise (with proper monitoring for humane practices)
and
> the horses were sold for whatever they could get--that way the better
ones go
> to homes, the poorer ones go to slaughter, and there is no cost to the
> taxpayer whatsoever.  It is certainly your perogative to not wish to eat
meat,
> but as a horse lover,  

Please note that even though I am a semi-vegetarian I am not against the
slaughter of animals for food, if its done in a humane way. The
idea of using an animal for food doesn't make me squeamish (I still eat
poultry and fish) and my family are avid hunters and fishermen)).

But unfortunately I have been to many auctions where I have had first hand
experience of how these animals are treated (which does make me squeamish)-
both in the process of sale and afterwards on the trailers.  Many end up
being injured during this process and are made to tolerate dispicable
conditions in transport, as well as ending up with further injuries and
pain, but what the heck they're just livestock and who cares in the end 
because they're just going to be killed anyway, right. Who cares 
if they have to endure a long haul on a trailer in pain 
and being kicked and trampled by the other animals onboard.

I have yet too see "proper monitoring" of these haulers for humane
practices and doubt that most "private" enterprises would care about
anything other than the bottom line ($$$).  This is America where the
bottom line unfortunately is how much money can we make off of the
resources that are here on this Earth.  

I just came back from driving out to Yellowstone and it was great to see
many other areas of this beautiful country. We visited many of the
National Parks and monuments (The Badlands, Mt. Rushmore, Devil's Tower,
Little Big Horn, Yellowstone, the Grand Tetons and the St. Louis Arch) as
well as the Crazy Horse memorial, Cody, and Jackson Hole to name a few of
the places we visited.  Unfortunately not many people are "fortunate"
enough to have the means to see other portions of this country other than
where they live.  I am by no means financially successful.  I have a meager
middle class position for the NYS Conservation Department and my husband
works in a  maintenance position at a small specialty paper manufacturing
factory.  Both of us make less than $35,000 each per year, but we have been
able to buy a small home and a 2.5 acres of land. I also would love to be
able to own more land and have my own farm, but currently we can not afford
the competitive prices asked for land in our neck of the woods.  But that
is our goal- to own a small farmstead by the time we retire.
  
But we are healthy and we are lucky enough to be able to enjoy what we
have now.  And we truly enjoyed driving across this country and seeing how
beautiful it is, while knowing that we were very lucky to have been able to
be healthy enough and financially able to do it.  

Unfortunately not all of us are that lucky and that is why I am in favor of
the BLM and other adoption agencies providing sound and useful horses for
an inexpensive price.  These agencies are not in it to make a profit per
se, but to provide an outlet for sound and useable animals at a minimal
price to a person that might not have the lump sum up front for a horse .  

It is true that another "private" agency could very well do what the BLM
does, but they would probably have to be a not for profit group -
as are the other agencies I am familiar with.  Yes, there are
downfalls with the BLMs program, but I do not believe that turning it over
to private enterprise would be the best answer.  From what I saw and
experienced at Yellowstone I would not be able to rush to agreement with
you.  The private enterprises I dealt with at the Park resulted in less
than terrific food at higher prices, and inflated prices of souveniers.

I also have experienced contracting out as a government employee, and 
although it might appear to be cost effective at the start, it always ends
up as costing us more after the initial agreement.  There is still a cost
to the taxpayer for contracting out.  Overseeing that the program is still
being performed correctly is still there, which is one of the reasons that
I say it usually still results in costing the taxpayer money (and usually
more of it too).


> I strenously object to prolonging the life of the
>crippled, injured, old, or mentally unstable.Their lives are miserable,
and
>it is criminal for us to make them continue to suffer because our egos
>are served by prolonging their lives.


I agree whole heartedly with you that it is wrong to prolong the lives of 
animals that are crippled, injured, old and unsound, or mentally
unstable.  But unfortunately that isn't the case with many of the horses
that are put up for adoption or sent to the auctions.  The primary reason I
have seen is that they are no longer wanted because people
haven't the interest, means or knowledge to take care of them anymore. I
would much rather see a suffering animal that has no chance of making it,
be euthanized in a humane way (be it with a gun or a drug) and put out of
it's misery, but unfortunately many are subjected to continued pain right
up to the end; and that is where I object.

 > 
> Next time you wish to comment about grazing leases for pennies, come with
me
> to our family ranch and watch how hard these ranchers work to maintain
those
> resources for the good of us all.  

Heidi, I did not say that the ranchers do not work hard!  I AGREE  that
the ranchers in the west  (and our farmers throughout this country) WORK
VERY HARD AND LONG HOURS 365 DAYS A YEAR and without them none of us would
have the bountiful amounts of food and goods available to us that we do!
But correct me if I'm wrong, there are many leases made
for pennies per acre to the ranchers/businesses in the west, 
which to me seems less than fair in comparison to the farmers (and other
taxpayers) that have to buy land for competitive market rates
and pay taxes on it in many other regions of this country.  

Please forgive me if I offended you in any way.  That was not my objective.
It was very late (actually early) when I responded and I may not have been
as clear about my original post as I should have.

I was just trying to say that many people just own pleasure horses and
therefore are served by agencies such as the BLM, SRF, etc..  Not all
riders are as competitive as are most on Ridecamp.

I really enjoy owning my horse and I really enjoyed the CTR clinic we
attended this Spring. While searching for web sites on competitive riding 
I came across the Ridecamp link.  I have learned alot from you and the
others.

I would love it if BC turns out to be a successful competitive mount 
but even if we do not come in as a top finisher it will not matter to me.
I will be satisfied to just have completed and finished with a sound and
happy horse.

Who knows maybe eventually if I feel he's conditioned and mentally mature
enough, I might even try a 50 mile or more endurance race if he works out
and seems to enjoy it.  If not then at least I know that he'll be a great
pleasure horse.  :-)

Thanks for reading my reply! 

I have learned much from you and the others on Ridecamp! 
I will be waiting to read your replies to Ridecamp as I have
learned alot from them. 

Thank you!

Sincerely,

Maria