Re: endurance horse price -ridecamp-d Digest V98 #720

["Maria/Phil Hanby" <maphh@cowland.com>]

Please forgive me but I have been out of town for a couple of weeks and
would like to reply to this previous post from Bob Morris (Morris Endurance
Enterprises-Boise, ID):

 
I am guessing that you your opinion of the BLM program was one of a
"business" opinion".  IMHO the BLM is doing both the equine population and
the taxpayer a favor. Your post appeared to me as being against the BLM
adoption program because it was in competition to the breeding/sale prices
of Arabs (and for that matter other breeds that aren't commending higher
sale prices) for competitive (not to mention pleasure) riding.

I have to also relay my humble opinion of the BLM program/service as a
taxpayer.  If it wasn't for the adoption programs of the BLM
program/service and others, many people would not be in the postion to
enter into the "prestigious" world of horseownership. 
Many people that adopt these horses are not competitive horseman.  They are
average folks that enjoy the companionship and the opportunity to have a
horse as a partner for pleasure use!  I personally would rather see my tax
dollars used for this program than to subsidize the inexpensive leases that
many of the ranchers have so that they can continue to graze their
cattle for pennies. (Yes I am a vegetarian too.)  The BLM program helps
save many of these beautiful creatures from being slaughtered and ending up
in a can of dog food or on someone's plate as a delicacy. If the mustangs
also make good sporting prospects all the better!!  I have gotten the
feeling from many people who do not have the traditional Arab bred
CTR/endurance mount that their breed is looked upon as less of a mount in
the eyes of many serious distance riders.  But please remember that not not
all horse owners are serious distance competitors/riders.

I agree that many breeds are "in this same boat" when it comes to recouping
the true cost of breeding, raising and training horses for future sale. 
The money and time put into this process rarely is an economic goldmine let
alone a project where they truly recoup their investment.  My limited
experience with the process is just the opposite.  I personally don't see
how anyone could make a living of of breeding and truly training any horse.
 It takes years to truly train a horse, be it for the ring or the trail. 
The average backyard/entry horseman isn't necessarilly interested in
pedigree or how much specialized (ie. dressage/mileage and rankings)
training a horse has.  They are only interested in having a safe and fun
pleasure mount.  Until there comes a time that the average horseman has the
financial means and interest in anything further than pleasure riding I do
not believe that you'll see this change; Mainly because many people would
not have the financial means to go out and buy a truly trained/finished
horse for the
true price that it cost to breed and train it (even to the greenbroke
stage); and unfortunately the supply of horses is greater than the demand,
which is also an important factor in the equation!!!!!

I just hope that you and others of similiar beliefs would be a bit more
"open" to the adoption programs that are out there.  For many of us, we
would not have been able to own our beloved mounts if it wasn't for these
programs. The BLM and the Correctional Programs that retrain some of these
horses are doing the average horseowner/adopter a favor!  

Sorry if I offended anyone, but this struck a bit close to home.  I too
have adopted a horse.  His name is BCBeach and he was a harness race track
horse that wasn't making the speeds in NJ.  Rather than sell him to be
raced in lower class races or sold to the Amish for a cart horse, the
owners donated him to the Standardbred Retirement Foundation for adoption. 
I adopted him and have been very pleased with his progress.  I am not
interested in doing anything longer than a 25 or 30 mile LD rides at this
time. (My first real CTR is planned for next month). We attended our first
CTR
clinic in June and did a mock 15 mile ride and we placed 2nd in the
heavyweight division!  BC is gaited and will also trot; his gait is so
smooth and I can comfortably sit it for miles or post his trot (while we
pass the other horses at their trot and canter.) His adoption fee
was $350 and I have invested much more $$ than I wish to count in trainers
and clinics, but the way I looked at it was well worth it because I was
saving a useable horse that otherwise would have probably ended up on the
meat
truck!  I have also become more knowledgeable of all the energy and time
that goes into "training" a horse, and I wouldn't have it any other way! 
It's making me become a stronger rider and a partner with my mount.  We
still have a long way to go.  (He too has too learn to calm down on these
rides and at the VC's, but we are continuing to work through these
idiosyncracies.)  I have learned and continue to learn from these trainers
and the people I meet while riding the trails, as well as those I meet
surfing the
web. 

 (And unlike BLM's program, I never truly get full ownership of the horse- 
SRF always remains the titled owner of the horse to ensure that the horse
doesn't end up on the meat truck.)

Thanks again for letting me express another persons view about this topic.

Maria
----------
> From: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
> To: Maphh
> Subject: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #720
> Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 2:18 PM
> 
> 
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: ridecamp-d-request@endurance.net
> Message-Id: <199809092018.NAA27022@fsr.com>
> Subject: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #720
> X-Loop: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
> X-Mailing-List: <ridecamp-d@endurance.net> archive/volume98/720
> Precedence: list
> To: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
> Reply-To: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
> 
> ------------------------------

> 
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:33:36 -0600
> From: "Robert Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
> To: <epicarab@micron.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Re: endurance horse prices
> Message-Id: <199809091739.KAA02236@fsr.com>
> 
> Did you people out there wondering about the price of endurance horses
ever
> consider what bearing the BLM feral horse adoptation program has on the
> market. 
> 
> Consider the National advertising done for this program (and you the
> taxpayer pay for it), the number of horses available (over 10,000
yearly),
> the minimal cost to the adopter ($125.00), and the free publicity given
> these horses in endurance riding and you might get a bit upset! 
> 
> The BLM is in direct competition with you, just one of the reasons I have
> given up on raising endurance horses.
> 
> Bob Morris
> Morris Endurance Enterprises
> Boise, ID
> 
> ----------
> > From: epicarab@micron.net
> > To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: Re: endurance horse prices
> > Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 3:26 AM
> > 
> > I couldn't agree more with Sandy.  As a breeder who tries to produce
> horses
> > capable of show ring and endurance success, it is increasingly
> frustrating to try
> > to market these horses.  I really prefer to see my horses in the hands
of
> > endurance/performance people, but the show buyers are usually the only
> ones
> > willing to pay a decent price.  I am always astounded when people
contact
> me
> > looking for a good, broke endurance prospect and tell me they'd like to
> spend
> > about $1,000 to $2,000.  It costs me that much to get a horse to a year
> old, let
> > alone broke and ready for endurance.  More frustrating is when I hear
> from buyers
> > who decided to pass over one of our horses to buy a "cheap" one, only
to
> tell me
> > later that they spent more getting this horse ready than they would
have
> if they'd
> > just bought from us in the first place - sometimes having to sell and
> start over
> > because the horse just didn't have what it takes.  Whatever happended
to
> "you get
> > what you pay for"?  Oh well, I'll keep selling to the show people until
> something
> > changes.
> > 
> > SandyDSA@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Indeed. And in addition, the sad irony is that show horses command
> higher
> > > prices, even while considerably less is required of them. While I can
> take a
> > > decent distance horse a turn him into a respectable arena or show
> horse, the
> > > converse in rarely true. The horse who cists the owner $8000 or more,
> say, is
> > > less likely to see the trail, let alone b dependable out there.
> Interestingly
> > > enough, the show horses I see attempting to traverse the great open
> spaces are
> > > wrecks by the time they get home. Of course both can - and should -
be
> done
> > > together but rarely are. So...while that show prospect (based too
many
> times
> > > on the sire's reputation) is sold for $5000 or better at 2 years old,
> the same
> > > quality 2 year old destined for true athletic endeavor is luck indeed
> to
> > > command $1000 or more. This is incomprehensible to me. Frankly show
> horses
> > > (and we have them - they do both!) should be a dime a dozen while
true
> > > athletes of good breeding should command the higher prices. I would
> hate to
> > > have that bargain horse show that he was no bargain - halfway down
the
> road on
> > > a 50 miler.
> > > San
> > 
> > 
> > 
>