Re: bit to hackamore

["sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>]

I've found the mechanical hackamore the most effective, especially when you
must have brakes!  Just make sure you fit them on your horse's head when
looking for one.  Most I've encountered in the tack stores are muck too
bulky and jab the horses  face when you pull the reins back.  The best is
one with small mechanical parts that don't hit his or her face.  The
perfect one is hard to find.  good luck, Lori Sumrall

----------
> From: ridecamp-d-request@endurance.net
> To: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
> Subject: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #39
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 5:01 PM
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> ridecamp-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 39
> 
> Today's Topics:
>   Flooded and Blizzarded!               [
Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve ]
>   RE: AERC completion time rule - feed  [ truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
(Truman P ]
>   Re: 5 Speed Transmissions             [ "AJ's Classical Gas"
<ajsgas@imt.ne ]
>   Re: Prospects/Prices/etc              [ CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
]
>   sunscreen for horses                  [ "The Vervaet's"
<VervaetP@deruyter. ]
>   bit to hackamore                      [ "The Vervaet's"
<VervaetP@deruyter. ]
>   Re: Prospects/Prices/etc              [ SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com> ]
>   Re: Prospects/Prices/etc              [ RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> ]
>   Re: AERC completion time rule - feed  [ RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> ]
>   Re: AERC completion time rule - feed  [ "Robert J. Morris"
<bobmorris@rmci. ]
>   Orthoflex new pad system              [ Leonard.LIESENS@DG10.cec.be ]
>   Osceola National Forest post; Osceol  [ guest@endurance.net ]
>   Re: Pendleton Challenge etc           [ charla cranor
<arabian@flash.net> ]
>   Re: digging to China                  [ Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
]
>   Re: AERC completion time rule - feed  [ "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net> ]
>   Re: AERC completion time rule - feed  [ "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net> ]
>   Re: AERC completion time rule - feed  [ Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
<ramey@wvi.c ]
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:58:49 -0500
> From: Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Flooded and Blizzarded!
> Message-ID: <199801131401_MC2-2F2A-5F5A@compuserve.com>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline
> 
>      Hello all!
> 
>      I had to laugh out loud at the post from the Californian who said we
>      easterners must be getting sick of hearing about the rain in
southern
>      CA.  Not at all;  I've really enjoyed the posts about the rained-out
>      ride and the camaraderie that we're missing due to ol' man winter.
> 
>      This leads me to a question, though:
> 
>      Since my husband and I are new to all this (competing last year in
>      about 3 CTRs), we're doing our best to keep our horses semi-fit thru
>      the winter months.  We are in western New York, and tend to get lots
>      of lake effect snow (not so far this year -- thank you, El Nino,
from
>      those of us on the EAST coast!!), so we've got a few drops of borium
>      on the shoes, and are ready to rock and roll.  Unfortunately, our
work
>      has been inconsistent due to the weather.  What are the rest of you
>      doing to keep your horses fit (and you) during winter?
> 
>      Should we pack up in the trailer and try to get some work in in an
>      indoor arena?
> 
>      Off the topic, I've been reading all the formaldehyde posts.  Being
a
>      health and safety manager, I do feel qualified to say.  This is
nasty
>      #*&!*!!  (technical term).  Not only a carcinogen, but a very potent
>      eye irritant, as has been posted.  Do try to use something else, but
>      if you must, use impermeable gloves, and goggles if you can.  Safety
>      first, safety always.
> 
>      One last question . . .   Being from western New York, we
participated
>      in one ECTRA clinic (in the Adirondacks), two AHAO rides (near
>      Cleveland), and one NATRC ride (near Cleveland,too -- hats off to
Pam
>      Pintchuk, if you're out there -- this was a great ride!).  We'd like
>      to stay within about 6 hours of home, but find our ride options
>      somewhat limited.  Are there any or organizations out there that we
>      are missing? Since we're just getting started and have fairly young
>      horses (6 and 7), we're more in it for the fun of it, the miles, and
>      having a pleasant time, do let us know if we're missing any rides in
>      our area which are known as "a good time."
> 
>      Thanks to all for your help!
> 
>      Patti Carey-Stedman and (Belgian/TB) Tess (looking like a cross
>      between a woolly mammoth and Snuffleluffagus from Sesame Street)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:21:45 -0500
> From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-Id: <v01540b01b0e16dbb105b@[198.252.56.115]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> An unfortunate fact of like is that in the Southeast we sometimes have
> trouble with trail vandlas.  They can be quite creative.  Not only will
> they take ribbons, but they will use the ribbons to remark the trail for
> you leading riders way off course.  This can and will happen during a
ride,
> where it will only impact riders in the middle or back of the pack. 
While
> ride management can do all they can to mitigate this problem, it cannot
be
> totally eliminated.  I really don't belive a tough luck - to hell with
you
> is the correct response in this situtation. While placement is probably
not
> called for, I believe milage - assuming the necessary milage was cover -
> is.
> 
> Truman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truman Prevatt
> Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
> Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
> The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
> Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
> 
> Sarasota, FL
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:23:32 -0700 (MST)
> From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
> To: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
> Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: 5 Speed Transmissions
> Message-Id: <199801131923.MAA05273@cu.imt.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Dorothy,
> 
> I asked my husband to explain this to me.  Here is the scoop.  He said
that
> particularly if you have an automatic even if it has an auxillary cooling
> system (doesn't matter what make), it's never a good idea to haul in
> overdrive.  The reason being, there is a torque convertor that slips
inside
> an automatic.  In the higher gears (overdrive) this convertor slips more
> causing friction and a heat build up within you transmission fluid.  As
the
> transmission fluid heats up, it begins to lose it's ability to lubricate.
As
> the lubrication factor decreases, there is more friction, more heat build
up
> and eventually the transmission fluid will fail, leaving metal on metal.
> That's when things break.  There are alot of factors that go into how
long
> it takes for this to happen.  Terrain, speed, degree of throttle, etc.  
> 
> Now in a manual transmission, he said that some are better than others,
but
> that still you always have a risk factor.  When your transmission in in
4th
> gear, you have a direct ratio of 1 to 1 between your engine and the
rearend
> (essentially by-passing the gears) as your drive shaft is turning at the
> same speed as your engine.  When you shift into 5th or overdrive, your
drive
> shaft is then turning faster than the engine.  It all depends on the
> strength of the gears in 5th/overdrive, the amount of torque, terrain,
and
> throttle speed again as to whether on not you have a failure at this time
> when hauling.  The temptation with a manual for many people is to stick
it
> in overdrive, put the cruise control on and go.  When you do this, you
never
> know where your throttle is, it can be wide open or not, just to maintain
> your speed.  Anyway, he said that he loves people who haul in
5th/overdrive,
> as it means bread and butter at our shop <g>, but I'd better not do it,
> because he doesn't want to have to traipse across the country to come
rescue
> me if I break down.
> 
> Anne and the Horses
> (Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
> At 08:10 AM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Ask your husband if that applies when you're on a freeway that's flat. 
I
> >put our Chevy Diesel into overdrive when I'm going 60 on the freeway,
but
> >I'll quit doing that if he says to.
> >
> >Dorothy & Elly
> >taylorsville, ca
> >
> >----------
> >> From: AJ's Classical Gas <ajsgas@imt.net>
> >> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> >> Subject: 5 Speed Transmissions
> >> Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 12:58 PM
> >> 
> >> You said that you had a 5-speed transmission in your 1996 Chevy
diesel. 
> >I
> >> only know that my husband has told me never to haul the trailer in
> >overdrive
> >> or 5th gear.  He is a mechanic and has replaced many 5th gears in
> >> transmissions where the person was hauling a trailer (sometimes that
gear
> >> has gone out in only one trip).  So, to be on the safe side, don't use
> >> overdrive/5th when hauling, because if it does break, your stuck till
a
> >> wrecker hauls you in (ick).
> >> Anne & the horses
> >> (Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
> >
> >
> Anne & the horses
> (Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:00:07 EST
> From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
> To: barfield@primenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
> Message-ID: <13e32001.34bb8f89@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> I think Jerry Barfield said it better than any of us.  Thanks, Jerry.
> 
> Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:24:22 -0500
> From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
> To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: sunscreen for horses
> Message-Id: <199801131701.JAA26235@fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
> I have a horse with a white face/nose.  He gets sunburned in the summer. 
> Should I use regular human sunscreen?  Is there a product designed for
> horses that anyone's tried?
> Paula
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:31:08 -0500
> From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
> To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: bit to hackamore
> Message-Id: <199801131708.JAA27738@fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
> I want to try a hackamore on horses that have been previously ridden in
> bits (mild types). Any suggestions in change over?  Do I just "do it", or
> is there something that I should do in-between to help adjust them to it?

> What type would everyone recommend....mechanical hacks.....or other
types?
> Thanks
> Paula
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:50:55 EST
> From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
> To: barfield@primenet.com
> Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
> Message-ID: <36f2f3cf.34bb8d60@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-13 02:31:27 EST, you write:
> 
> <<  The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would
not
> lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect.  The high
croups
> and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what
get
> you to the other side of the mountain and back.  Not to mention the long
> cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
> AMEN to THIS - been there and seen it all!
> sandy
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:45 EST
> From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
> To: barfield@primenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
> Message-ID: <9a741d86.34bb9d46@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:34 EST, you write:
> 
> <<  The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would
not
> lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect.  The high
croups
> and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what
get
> you to the other side of the mountain and back.  Not to mention the long
> cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
> 
> Also, the "show breeders" no NOTHING when it comes to performance
> conformation...neither do the judges.  PLUS, many of these horses are
OVERFED
> and STEROIDED to increase early growth...too much too soon.  They are,
IMO,
> NOT a good prospect (unless you are lucky enought to get the NICE one
when he
> is 3 months old - even then, the MARE is often overfed to produce a
bigger
> foal - that is transmitted on to a foal that is asked to grow to soon too
fast
> BEFORE he is born).
> 
> Teddy
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:47 EST
> From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
> To: bobmorris@rmci.net, equine_athletes@hotmail.com,
ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <dc331886.34bb9d49@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:42 EST, bobmorris@rmci.net writes:
> 
> << 
>  Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!!  This
is
>  ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
every
>  thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the
thing
>  may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
was
>  not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
"if
>  I don't finish I will complain".
>  
>  Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
>   >>
> 
> Maybe it did, Bob.  BUT, consider the expertise of ride managers (some
> judgements regarding trail difficulty not made well, MANY courses not
measured
> well) and course designers (ditto) and good old mother nature....there
ARE
> instances when times cannot be met through NO fault or decision on the
part of
> the rider.  I still vote for total RIDING time, not just total time.
> 
> Teddy
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:59:15 -0700
> From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
> To: "Steph Teeter" <step@fsr.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-Id: <199801132001.MAA15086@fsr.com>
> 
> Steph & Ride Camp:
> 
> Long before the Trilby/Les episodes (my apologies to you both, but this
is
> how it is recognized) I find in the 1980 Ride Managers Handbook (Jim
> Remillard was AERC Pres.) the following:
> 
> A prescribed maximum time is usually set for completion of the ride.
> Typically this is 12 hours for 50 miles, and 24 hours for 100 miles
> 
> This was an offshoot of the Tevis "100 miles in one day". My records do
not
> extend back beyond that as far as Ride Managers handbooks are concerned.
> 
> I have always been in favor of the 12 hour rule and continue to do so.
(as
> you can see from my recent posts.)To me it is disconcerting to have
> persons,  with inadequately prepared horses and/ or not properly prepared
> themselves, who are not willing to be prepared to COMPETE, be given the
> same recognition as those persons making the effort.
> 
> If at my age (and that also includes Arlene and many others of like
> longevity such as Bill Ansenberger, Julie Suhr and Bob Suhr and many
> others), if we ask no quarter, no special conditions, then let the
younger
> set, those wanting special  considerations show why they REALLY need
them.
> 
> To finish is to win and winning is not a given in life
> 
> Bob Morris
> Morris Endurance Enterprises
> Boise, ID
> 
> ----------
> > From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
> > To: 'bobmorris@rmci.net'; ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 11:23 AM
> > 
> > Bob - I have a couple questions for you:
> > 
> > As Joe Long pointed out, there was originally NO time limit
> > imposed by AERC. The rule came about because of individuals
> > trying to ride a billion miles in one season, and the only way 
> > they could do it was if they walked the entire course. So they
> > did, and it kept ride managers up all night and drove everyone
> > crazy.
> > 
> > So, were you in favor of the new time limit rule when it was
> > proposed? I assume you were competing at the time. And
> > if so, why was 12 hours the magic number? This is still a
> > pretty slow pace for a *real* endurance ride.... and when the
> > rule was originally put in place, did it address the question
> > of variation in hold times, or did that come about later?
> > 
> > st
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Robert J. Morris [SMTP:bobmorris@rmci.net]
> > Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 9:00 PM
> > To:	Linda Van Ceylon; ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject:	Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> > 
> > Linda and Ride Camp:
> > 
> > I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire
rule
> > 61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not
those
> > finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!!  Ramey , you should know
> better!!
> > 
> > <<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of 
> > courses we have>> 
> > 
> > This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one
said
> > the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!
> > 
> > <<Then  if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets
> really
> > bad,  etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to
the
> 
> > rule.>>
> > 
> > This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
> > good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses,
> and
> > they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
> > with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
> > ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail
> was
> > mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED
AN
> > EXCUSE!!!
> > 
> > <<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
> > discussion.>>>
> > 
> > Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!!  This
> is
> > ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
> every
> > thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the
thing
> > may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
> was
> > not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
> "if
> > I don't finish I will complain".
> > 
> > Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
> > 
> > Bob Morris
> > Morris Endurance Enterprises
> > Boise, ID
> > 
> > ----------
> > > From: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > > To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > > Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> > > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
> > > 
> > > Hi Steph,
> > > 
> > > I think Ramey's argument is sound.  We already have a rule to deal
with
> 
> > > the overtime situation.  It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but,
> to 
> > > me, it seems clear.  
> > > 
> > > .  And, it seems in some cases, there is a great 
> > > variation of the number of feet in a mile.  Here in our area, there
are
> 
> > > 5,280 ft. per mile.  That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over
4
> 
> > > hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win.  Granted, sometimes 
> > > there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are 
> > > miscalculated.  But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage 
> > > accurate.
> > > 
> > > On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be

> > > pushing the 12 hour envelope.  The suggestions of other ride
managers, 
> > > and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one
will
> 
> > > ever complain about a course that is too short".  Well, I just don't 
> > > think this is right.
> > > 
> > > In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change
the
> 
> > > rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. 
Then 
> > > if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really
bad,
> 
> > > etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the 
> > > rule.
> > > 
> > > We have particular problems with LD rides.  Because, when you include

> > > the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the
speed 
> > > they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer
distances.
>  
> > > Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler.  At 1.5

> > > hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's
> must 
> > > average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail.  The 25's have to "go 
> > > like h..." to meet the cut-off.  This is not in keeping with my 
> > > philosophy of the purpose of LD.
> > > 
> > > I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
> > > 
> > > Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
> > > Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > > 2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO  80526
> > > 970-226-1099
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:07:31 +0100
> From: Leonard.LIESENS@DG10.cec.be
> To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Orthoflex new pad system
> Message-ID:
<WIN938-980113190802-64AD*/G=Leonard/S=LIESENS/O=DG10/PRMD=CEC/ADMD=RTT/C=BE
/@MHS>
> Content-Identifier: Orthoflex new pa
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I gor finally my Orthoflex saddle. Wonderful. exactly what I was
expecting as color, but their new pad system...
> 
> The one I rode during the Tevis had booties and the whole system was
looking perfect and did peerfectly work, I mean for Sukaro HCC, Steph's
arab gelding.
> 
> But now they changed this and the saddle was delivered with a so_called
'numnah' which is made of 2 parts :
> - one is a white fleece shaped as a saddle with felt on one side and
something looking like wool (but it can be synthetic as well) on the other
side.
> - the other part is something looking like a regular dressage/jumping
saddle pas, but with a whole shaped as a saddle in the middle and velcro
attachments.
> 
> No schema, no explanation or getting started to be found...
> 
> I think that the white fleece goes on the horse with the whole part in
contact of the horse and the felt in contact with the panelling system.
> 
> The pad with the whole seems to be there only as a finishing touch, maybe
to protect or hide the panelling system and presumely goes on top of the
first pad and around the saddle.
> 
> Are other ridecamp buddies experimenting this new system and can you tell
me if I am right or not.
> 
> Thanks for help
> 
> Leonard, from Belgium
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:50:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: guest@endurance.net
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Osceola National Forest post; Osceola l00 results Post;
> Message-Id: <199801132050.MAA17760@fsr.com>
> 
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
> You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
> 
> From: Jean Wonser 
> Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
> 
>  Please determine the problem as the two above news items do not appear
on the Archives other than their respective titles (January l2 and l3,
l998). As a browser  I'd like to read  the results. etc.
> 
> Thanks
> Jean Wonser
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:05:10 -0800
> From: charla cranor <arabian@flash.net>
> To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
> Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980113210510.006b1e14@pop.flash.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Becky Hackworth is considering taking on this ride with alot of help. 
> I would e-mail her. Her husband already arranges all the entertainment
> ,and activities on 32nd St. Naval Base.
> 
> Charla Cranor
> Alpine, Ca.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 08:28 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >> If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
> >> in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since
it
> >> takes place on the military reservation.
> >
> >
> >Is it just a matter of having someone in the RM's group be military? 
> >David is Navy Reserve, AND an officer and drills all the time at
> >Pendleton.  He definitely has the connections, but neither of us are
> >experienced enough to just jump in and say, Shazam, we're ride
> >managers.  But if it's a matter of just needing someone involved with
> >all the right connections...well, those we got.
> >
> >Susan Garlinghouse
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:22:19 -0800
> From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
> To: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
> CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: digging to China
> Message-ID: <34BBDB0B.5A35@fea.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Craig W. Hadley wrote:
>   He said that every so often they have to
> > change out their rubber conveyor belts.  He put our name on a waiting 
> 
> 
> I know a few people who use rubber conveyor belts in their stall. They
> do a good job but are easier for the horse to move around then the
> heavier rubber mats.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:45:58 GMT
> From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <34c4dfda.353466788@mail.mti.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:00:08 -0700, "Robert J. Morris"
> <bobmorris@rmci.net> wrote:
> 
> >Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!!  This
is
> >ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
every
> >thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the
thing
> >may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
was
> >not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
"if
> >I don't finish I will complain".
> 
> Bob, you know I've often agreed with you  in the past about the
> challenge of *endurance* ... but that challenge is a real challenge,
> against the trail.  We don't  need arbitrary rules or barriers to
> produce it.  The "good old days" when trails were tough and no one
> complained (did they really exist?) also were the days when the AERC
> didn't have a riding time rule.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> http://www.mti.net     Business
> http://www.rnbw.com    Personal
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:48:00 GMT
> From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <34c5e098.353656300@mail.mti.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700, Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
> <ramey@wvi.com> wrote:
> 
> >Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed.  But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
> >to Steph.   Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
> >6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?   
> 
> >Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there.  Your argument is based
> >upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.  
> 
> Rule 6.1 isn't limited to Top Ten, but the AERC Board has always held
> that it doesn't allow exceptions to the time limit, either.  Perhaps
> that needs to be made more clear, but I wouldn't advise a ride manager
> trying to allow an overtime completion based on it.  
> 
> -- 
> 
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> http://www.mti.net     Business
> http://www.rnbw.com    Personal
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700
> From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
> To: bobmorris@rmci.net
> CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <34BBD6B8.7E50@wvi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed.  But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
> to Steph.   Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
> 6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?   
> 
> Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there.  Your argument is based
> upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.  
> 
> My discussion was based on the actual words of the rule itself.  Nothing
> in the rule limits it's application to top ten finishers, they are only
> mentioned.  Since the rule was adopted as written, it is subject to my,
> as well as your, interpretation.  In other words it is ambiguous.
> 
> You might note that in most cases a court will reverse any sanction
> issued to a rider based upon an alledged violation of an ambiguously
> written rule.  
> 
> So now I suppose you will argue we should all know what the rules mean
> regardless of what they say.  Skip it, Bob, I've heard that one before.
> 
> Ramey.
> 
> --------------------------------
> End of ridecamp-d Digest V98 Issue #39
> **************************************