Re: Pony prices and training (long)

[Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>]

Trish,

I have to be a buttinski here again. In Kansas, we have much the same
situation you described -- gravel roads, a county that used to be farms,
but is now filled with homes and 3 acre lots, so there are kids, dogs,
cars, 4-wheel ATVs, dirt bikes, spinning lawn ornaments, etc.

We also have lots of bridges that have very scary concrete end walls (those
things eat horses, you know).

I have found that the John Lyons methods DO WORK if you udnerstand them and
get the basics down first.

The first principle - you don't get hurt and the horse doesn't get hurt.

The second - the horse is calmer after the lesson than before.

The third - work aorund the horse's comfort zone. Once I learned this,
teaching star to deal with all the monsters out there was easier. 

When I first got him, he really hesitated at those scary bridges and would
only cross them if his brave friend Emma went over them first. Garbage
cans, kids on bikes and even worse -- we have squeaky oil wells here, were
cause for a huge sideways, straightlegged hop, that more than once unseated
me.

Star had to learn that it is ok to spook, but we spook in place. And I had
to learn the comfort zone rule. When you approach something scary - let the
horse tell you where his comfort zone is. When he gets to where he stops or
wants to turn around or bolt, STOP. Stand there looking at the scary thing.
It may take 5 minutes, it may take 20 minutes. when he is ready to deal
with it, he will put his head down and start to step forward. If he takes 1
step forward, that is cause for praise. At this point you can gently urge
him on past the scary thing. It works great at creek and stream crossings too.

This teaches the horse that you won't ask him to do anything that will get
him hurt. It teaches him confidence in your judgement.

On a smaller scale, work onthis at home. Use cavaletti poles to teach the
horse to go over stuff. put hay bales around the yard and weave him in and
out of them.

I know what you mean. My old boy Cisco is like your Tash. I can leave him
unridden for months or even a year and get on his back and it is like he
was ridden yesterday. It is very comfortable but it also allowed me to
become a lazy rider. Star definitely woke me up and made me call on some
rusty skills. But I am a much better rider a year later adn he is a much
better horse. People who knew him when I first got him marvel at how he
does now.

One of the best Lyons' things I've done with Star is the "giving to the
bit" exercises. I do these when it is to yuicchhy to go for a long ride, or
when I'm on call (reporters have pager duty sometimes and have to be close
to a car and camera). We workon these exercises at home, and sometimes I
throw them in on a trail ride. They have taught him to be responsive to my
commands and have taught me to be precise in my messages on the reins.

I'll get off my soapbox now. You are very right in that it is a LOT of work
to train a horse. I wouldn't have taken on a 3 year old. Star is 10, but
was left alone and unridden for at least a year. At least he had a good
foundation. we just had to find it.

It is hard to relax when you are unsure of your horse and that communicates
from you back to the horse. When you feel yourself tensing up, TAKE A DEEP
BREATH, sing, whistle, laugh, talk to the horse, anything that makes you
breathe!

GOOD LUCK.

chris paus & the Starman who was a very good boy in the woods today AND
EVEN stood perfectly still when silly mom stepped out of the saddle which
was too loose and ended up tripping backwards over a log. There I was with
my left foot still int he stirrup and the rest of me ass over teakettle.
Star just stood there waiting for me to get the whole situation put right
again. good boy!

At 11:25 AM 1/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-09 23:27:46 EST, you write:
>
><< In past few yrs, I have bought 2 'unbroken' but rather untrained older
> horses, both over 5.  I will do it again.  They were not abused too young
> by being overridden too young.  The white stallions that do the spanish
> riding school events are not brought in for training until they are 4. 
> Mary Ann,TX>>
> 
>Dear Mary, I am glad there are people like you out there who are willing and
>able to train horses for those of us who don't want to do it.  What I meant
>was this: when I bought David I thought, #1. It would be "fun" to bring up a
>"baby" all by myself, clean slate, don't have to fix someone else's mistakes
>or abuse etc. etc.  What I failed to take in to consideration ( and was not
>entirely aware of myself ) was that I really just want to ride a good horse,
>you know?  I want to be able to go out to my barn, saddle my horse, and go
for
>a ride assured I can do so in a reasonable degreee of safety, comfort, and
>peace.  I don't want to have to worry about what the horse is going to do
when
>I try to pass the garbage truck on the road ahead, or if he is going to
have a
>problem with that dog that is running around barking, or if he is going to
try
>to jump that little stream rather than cross it--etc. etc. etc.
>    I know these are all problems that can be dealt with through training.  I
>have found, after the fact, that this training involves a lot more work and
>time than I first imagined.  No horse is perfect, and all have their little
>quirks.  I don't mind this.  But just started, hyper 3 yr olds have lots and
>lots of little quirks!!!  Lots.  Lots and lots.  Too many.  
>     #2. Maybe out on the Colorado plains, with laid back stock horses,
JLyons
>methods work great, but on Michigan gravel roads, complete with traffic,
>garbage bags, ditches to either side of the road, children who come running
>out to "pet the horsies" when they see them, clinging to balloons, small
dogs,
>and other assorted toys as they do so, and on a high strung, 3 year old, just
>started arab, JLyons methods don't work so good.  I say this from experience.
>Trust me.
>     #3.  In my mind, I always have more  free time than in real life I
>actually do have.  Training a horse takes a LOT of free time.
>     #4.  Riding horses for 20 years does NOT qualify one to train them,
>contrary to my original belief.
>     #5.  Taking on the training of a young horse without really knowing what
>you have gotton yourself in to is a good way to get hurt.  I know this from
>experience, now.
>     #6. Trainers, books, videos and clinics purchased to help one once one
>realizes they are in over their head cost a lot of money.  My husband, at one
>point, said, "Sheesh Trish, why didn't you just go out and buy a $10,000.
>horse?"  I smiled and said, "Don't worry dear, by the time I'm done with
David
>I'll probably have one!"  
>     #7. These things are, however, cheaper than emergency room visits.
>
>I love my pretty arab David. He is a sweet and honest horse, but also a high
>strung and insecure one who is being taught by me, not the ideal teacher for
>him I think.  But I am taking things slowly and trying hard to do the right
>things. We are making progress.  Very slowly. My hope lies in that both David
>and I are improving, in our rides together.  Very slowly.  As Kimberely said
>to me, it often seems one step forward, two steps back. In the end I know we
>will become a team, hopefully one to be reckoned with out there on the
>trails!:)   I am sure that when all is said and done, I will be proud of
>David, and proud of what I managed to do with him, myself, with my own hands
>and brain. But it is a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of money, and I
>really don't think I'd want to do it all over again.  
>     This realization hit me full force last week.  For the first time in a
>year I went for a ride on my faithful old gelding Tash, whom I've owned
for 20
>years. (I didn't ride Tash at all last year as part of a New Year's
>Resolution; , David's training progressed very slowly because I found myself
>always saying, "I don't feel like messing with David today--I just want to go
>for a ride, I'll take Tash"--so for 1997 I said to myself, if I have time to
>ride Tash, I've time to ride David, and David needs it more.  I leased
Tash to
>a good friend."  Well, so I took my old guy out, it was garbage day, it was
>windy, garbage bags flapping in the wind, some of the turned over cans
rolling
>about the roads.  Tash just walked on by them.  When I cut into the fields
two
>deer rose out of the long grass right in front of me and bounded away.
Tash's
>head came up, and he snorted a little bit, but then just plodded on. (David
>would've reacted a bit more--ah, actively, than that.<g>)  About midway
>through the ride, as I was just letting Tash amble along, reins loose, and I
>was enjoying the scenery, it hit me--gosh but it was GREAT to be able to just
>sit on my horse and RELAX and enjoy the ride!  I have often enjoyed the rides
>I take with David.  I am rarely relaxed on them, however.  To say the least.
>    David is beauty, and fire, and spirit, and speed, and a spectacular
>floating trot, a canter so smooth you could ride it all day--he is also
>skittish, insecure, prone to bolting, prone to kicking, prone to bucking, and
>a lot of work!  Will it be worth it?  I'm sure it will!  Will I do it again?
>Probably not.  (I say probably because I always believe in leaving my options
>open!<g>)
>     This is what I meant.  
> > 
> > << I've spent too much money to count on Mystery and I don't know if I 
> >  would ever buy an unbroke 5 year old again. >>
> > 
> > I feel EXACTLY the same way about my David (only he was a basically
> unbroke 3
> > year old).  I love him, and in the end I'm sure it will all be worth it,
> but
> > it is a lot of time, a lot of money,--and as often as not, my blood
> pressure
> > still cranks up a notch or two everytime I decide to ride him.  I look
> forward
> > to the day I can go saddle David with the same sense of security and
> emotional
> > comfort I have when I saddle my faithful old gelding Tash. >>
>
>Trish & "pretty David"
>
>
>