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OK, maybe I used the wrong phrase, rather I meant we're misunderstanding
each other. I was taught that overangulated doesn't not become "sickle"
until a certain point, at which time it is a conformational weakness.
>From what I remember, the line of the hock pointing an inch or two past
the point of the butt is overangulated---pointing five or six or
whatever is "sickle" and definitely a fault. I agree absolutely,
though, that I'll take too angulated over too straight any day.
I rummaged around in Dr. H's dissertation and thought there might be
some interest in the results. As previously stated, these measurements
were in Swedish Warmblood horses heading towards or competing in elite
dressage and show jumping, NOT endurance horses, but the results are
still interesting.
Since we were specifically talking about hock angles, here goes...
There were four classes of horses. 1) Young, untested horses from the
SWB breeding facility in Uppsala, Sweden 2) Mature riding horses working
as lesson horses on a daily basis but not competing or doing anything
really rigorous 3) Elite level dressage horses, and 4) Elite level show
jumpers. the total number of horses measured was 356.
The average hock angles in each group respectively were 155.4, 156.8,
159.1 and 159.0 degrees. Statistically, there was no significant
difference between the elite dressage and jumpers, but a highly
significant difference (p<0.001)(that means they're 99.9% sure they're
correct, for those not into stats) between the non-elite horses and the
elite horses.
More interesting measurements...there was no sig diff between non-elite
horses and elite dressage horse's hip angles, but elite jumpers showed a
more sloped hip angle.
Overall length of body stayed pretty much the same, but the loin was a
bit shorter in elite jumpers and alot shorter in elite dressage horses.
Width of breast was wider in elite horses.
Length of neck, scalpula and humerus got longer while the cannon bone
got shorter as performance levels increased.
Shoulder angle became more laid-back, cannon bone circumference got a
bit bigger in dressage and alot bigger in jumpers.
Angle of pasterns was less sloped in elite horses than in non-elite
horses. Dressage horses had more angle than did the jumpers.
Here are the comments from the "discussion" portion of this particular
paper:
"Both groups of elite horses had larger hock angles than did the
non-elite horses. If the concept of sickle-hocks is defined as meaning
an angle less than the mean of all horses minus one standard deviation,
then those horses with hock angles of <53% could be classified as
sickle-hocked. Thus none of the show jumpers and only one of the
dressage horses was sickle-hocked. The absence of sickle-hocked horses
in the elite groups must be due to either small hock angles increasing
the risk of injury, or to the possibility that small hock angles may
impair a horse's ability to attain the level of collection required for
good performance in advanced classes. A combination of these two
factors is supporte4d in the literature. Magnussen and Thafvelin (1985)
found a positive relationship between large hock angles and soundness in
Standardbred trotters and Muller and Schwark (1979) found positive
correlations between large hock angles and various performance traits in
showjumpers. Schmidt (1928) maintained that horses with small hock
angles (sickle-hocked) can certainly step under themselves, but that
they cannot support themselves due to decreased resistance in the hock.'
"Furthermore, the showjumpers has smaller (more angled) fetlock angles
in the forelimbs than the other horse's studied, possibly reflecting the
fact that large (upright) joint angles have a harmful effect on
soundness. Less sound horses fail to proceed to the advanced classes,
rather their competition careers are terminated at an early stage.
Magnussen and Thafvelin (1985) showed that small fetlock angles in the
fore and hind limbs had a positive effect on soundness in the
Standardbred trotter."
If anyone wants the reference for this particular conformation study:
Holstrom, M., LE Magnussen, J. Philipsson. Variation in conformation of
Sweidish Warmblood horses and conformational characteristics of elite
sport horses. Equine Veterinary Journal (1990) 22 (3), pg. 186-192.
When I talked with Dr. H last spring about these studies relating to
endurance horses, he thought the results would apply fairly well to
endurance horses. His personal opinion was that if he were looking for
an endurance prospect, he would be inclined to look more for a dressage
horse body and showjumpers limbs. That is, he would to stay away from a
longer loin and over angulation in the joints. On the other hand, he
also pointed out (and this is confirmed in the study) that there were no
horses in the study that were overly straight in their limb and joint
angles or that were what we would call post-legged. He said this is
because the warmblood breeding facilities (and as he's the head vet
there, I guess he would know) consider too-straight angles as being the
kiss of death, and immediately culled from breeding stock, whereas as
they're willing to consider and work with "over-angulation" to a certain
degree.
> you repeated the word sickle hocked, yes it's semantics, but to me sickle is
> sickle, unless you say something about the degree the horse is affected.
> NOone is attacking you... but it was stated.
Never thought you were, Gwen. Hope this explains the research findings
a little better. It's a very interesting study, well worth reading for
anybody interested in kinematics.
Susan Evans
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