Re: [RC] RE: PICS: Crushed Heels

[Abby Bloxsom <goneriding@snet.net>]

Karen Standefer wrote:

> Ok, so toe height (vertical) for me is the distance
> from the coronary band to the ground, following the
> ventral wall of the hoof.  


Yeah, I would call this toe length.

> Toe length, for me, is the
> length of toe from the apex of the frog to the edge of
> the toe wall as measured from the bottom of the hoof
> (other wise known as breakover). 


And I would call this The Distance From the Apex of the Frog to the Toe 
Wall :-0

So we'll just have to be clear about this as we discuss ...

> I'll try to get this.  Roy seems to land fairly flat,
> possibly just slightly heel first.   I have to say
> that has changed since pulling shoes.  He use to land
> more heel first with shoes on.  


Which would explain why he had heel problems, eh?  Since the clubby heel 
and the underrun heel both result from too much heel growth.  I've heard 
farriers say "NEVER trim anything off the heel you need all the heel you 
can get" which also compounds the problem.

>  
> 
> Yep, hinds are definitely a more complex subject! 
> And, the movement on his hinds is radically different
> than before!  His hind feet issues are actually what
> brought me to this trimming method in the first place.
>  We'll have to have that discussion on another
> thread.............or possibly offline unless everyone
> wants to hear it :-)


I'm assuming they do or they would have told us to shut up by now ;)

And I'll freely admit that my hind feet are more guesswork than I'd like 
them to be, so fire away. (Never let it be said I would not admit when I 
don't know something!)

> 
> On my own horse I would only use x-rays.  With my vets
> help, we marked the apex of the frog with a piece of
> metal, then took a lateral x-ray.  Then, we measured
> 1/4" in front of the coffin bone tip (after it was
> ground parallel) and marked that.  Then we took the
> measurement from the apex of the frog to the point
> 1/4" in front of the coffin bone and that was 1". 


What did you do with the inch?  Is that your benchmark for the breakover 
point when you're trimming?

> Using the same protocol on the rears, they came out to
> 1 1/4".  On client's horses, if they  absolutely won't
> get x-rays, I use the top 1" of growth below the
> coronary band on the ventral wall of the hoof.  I draw
> an imaginary line from there to the ground as seen
> from the lateral side of the hoof.  Where it
> intersects the ground/hoof wall is where I dub the
> toes back to.
>

Dub the toes or float the toes?  I don't think you can dub the toes that 
far.  (I use "dubbing" to refer to vertical rasping; "floating" comes 
from the sole side)

Also (so NOW she says this) what about the range of feet from a size 5 
drafter to a size 000 pony foot?  You can't do an inch on the ventral 
wall for all of them, so you must have a range you use.


> 
>>>and #2, do you float the hoof wall at the toe &/or 
>>>
> quarters?<<


Ah - for the peanut gallery (sorry for being late on this) - floating is 
rasping so that these points are just above the surface of the ground 
(or "floating" above the ground).

> 
> I *have* been floating the hoof wall and the toe to
> encourage a quicker breakover while trying to get more
> height in the toe area of the sole.  However, I won't
> be doing that anymore because we have the height I
> needed.  


Presuming that if the horse needs this floated he will take care of this 
himself?  I'm also relating this to the shod horse, as the breakover is 
the point to which I rocker a shoe.

> I do float the quarters.  I believe that the
> hoof in a natural state has only 3 points of full
> weight bearing, those being the heels (2) and the toe
> area of the sole (not the hoof wall at the sole). 


The 4-point trimmers would call this the toe callus, agreed? And the 
wall at this line they would call the Toe Pillars.

> The
> quarters expand on full weight bearing.  If you don't
> float them, when the horse is working on hard
> ground,the hairline will raise in those areas. 


Been there, seen that.  I've also seen that *with* a toe crack (which I 
have attributed to delayed breakover.  In that case, I moved the 
breakover back, which cured both.


> Eventually, the quarters will chip and crack which
> effectively does the same thing as my floating them,
> but not so attractively :-)  


I call this God's Trimming Method (or Mother Nature's Trimming Method, 
depending on my audience).

> Also, the whiteline in
> those areas can become compromised from the leverage
> on the wall if it's not floated in the quarters. 
> However, floating is not near so important on a soft
> hooved breed (Belgium, Clydesdale, etc) that is
> working on soft ground.  So, to say I float quarters
> on every horse is not true. 


Those horses tend to flare instead, which I deal with by both removing 
the flare and floating the quarters.  This also happens on the lateral 
(outside) quarters of the hind feet, very commonly.

-A


-- 
* * *
Abby Bloxsom
ARICP Certified Instructor
Level III Recreational and Distance Riding
Colebrook, CT USA
goneriding@snet.net