Part II Re: Foot Angles, Shoeing, etc (omigosh getting longer)

[Abby Bloxsom <goneriding@snet.net>]

  CONTINUED FROM PART I

Karen said again, about her horse Roy:

 >  Prior to removing his shoes, his LF was 54
 > degrees and his RF was 60 degrees (clubby).  I pulled
 > his shoes and we rode about 30 miles over several days
 > on crushed rock.  At the end of that time, he wore his
 > heels down and shortened his toes himself and his
 > front angles were at 45 and 48 degrees.  X-rays later
 > showed his coffin bones to be ground parallel on the
 > LF and almost on the RF (club hoof).
 >

Again, as I described above, I would say that Roy had a "boxy" foot,
rather than a "clubby" foot.  If the latter, lowering his heels would
have created greater P3 rotation, rather than reducing it.  Regardless,
this was definitely the solution for this horse.

 > Ironically, my veterinarian is a founder expert.  She,
 > also, believes that the coffin bone should be ground
 > parallel.  So, I've had excellent help in achieving a
 > healthy hoof for my horse.
 >
I don't know of any farrier anywhere who would say that P3 should not

be ground parallel in a normal (i.e. not club footed) horse.  Remember,

this includes probably 99% of all horses.  The problem is that 99% of

horses are also trimmed without the benefit of radiographs, so the guy
on the street has to have something to go by.  IMNSHO ... the best place
to start is with the angles of P1 and P2 (long & short pastern bones).

 > The pastern angle is a good indicator as to the
 > angle of the coffin bone inside the hoof capsule
 > (unless the laminar connection is destroyed or weak in
 > which case only x-rays can be accurate).
 >

I agree with Karen on this point.

I said :
 >
 >>>That means setting the shoe back under the foot, allowing plenty of 
room
 >
 > on the surface of the shoe for hoof expansion, and shoeing to the angle
 > of the pastern.>>
 >
Kristene asked:

 > How much would you set the shoe back and would you have the same overhang

 > all around the foot?  My farrier - sorta new, the best I've used so 
far -

 > says to set the shoe back on the back feet to sort out forging and

 >overreaching, not square the toes on the back.  Must still ask him by how

 >much, though.


I set the shoe back so that the leading edge of the toe is about 1/4" in
front of the white line, usually.  I may go all the way back to the
white line from time to time ...  In addition, I often rocker the toe a
bit on the front foot, AND use a half-round shoe of sorts (eventers).
If I'm using a flat keg shoe, I definitely rocker the toe, sometimes
rolling the outside edge of the shoe beyond the sides of the rocker. A
rocker is when the whole thickness of the shoe itself is bent up from
the ground.  Rolled edges are when only the ground surface of the shoe
is rolled up, either with the hammer or with a rasp.  Rockers are
stronger, rolling is milder.

Re: leaving the shoe hanging out there - I leave 1/4" behind the heel at
the very back of the foot (note, many shoers will tell you the horse
will tread on this and pull the shoe, but they won't if you use the
rolled/rockered toe).  I also leave at least 1/8" of width at either
side of the heel of the shoe, tapering to 0" at the widest part of the foot.

On another note, I customarily use the BACK 3 nail holes on each side of
the shoe.  I leave out the toe nail so that the foot can break over more
easily, and because I have so much shoe showing in the quarters and
heels the hoof DOES expand in spite of the fact that I use the heel
nail.  Many farriers use the FRONT 3 nail holes ...

 >
Karen said :
 >>>The pastern angle changes according to how the hoof is
 > trimmed.>>
 >

Kristene replied:

 > In my own sort of logic, I always thought that is how it would happen.

 >If you changed the hoof angle, the pastern would follow.  That logic was

 > proven by the TBs who had those long toes and no heels - the pasterns 
matched.
 >
Actually the pastern angle changes, but it doesn't FOLLOW the foot, it 
changes

in the opposite way.  That is, if you raise the heel you will lower the 
pastern

(kind of like backing up a trailer ...) and vice versa.

With that LTLH horse you're talking about, this is a weak conformation
created by weakness in the rearward portion of the hoof.  The pastern
can be brought up over time by balancing the hoof AND by extending the
branches out beyond the quarters/heels as I described above.  This
develops a much stronger heel, frog, pastern ...

Karen said:

 > I certainly would not point to farriery
 > as the cause of a club hoof.    As a matter of fact, I
 > wouldn't point to farriery as the cause of any of the
 > ailments I'm speaking of.  It's bad trimming.  The
 > shoe didn't necessarily do it (other than the sidebone
 > issue).  And, in most cases it's just mis-education.


Hmmmmm ... well as I said, farriery IS trimming.  Shoeing is altogether
different.


 > It's the fact that people don't realize this stuff can
 > be changed.  But, it's being done over and over.  Cow
 > hocks go away, toeing in and toeing out disappear,
 > crookedly screwed on hooves can straighten out.  There
 > is really nothing that can't be fixed eventually.
 >

The first statement I agree with.  I also believe that we can correct or
improve founder, navicular, and many other things with judicious care.
But I also think there are plenty of things that can't be fixed and DO
need to be accommodated.

TO BE CONTINUED ONE MORE TIME ...