Ridecamp: Re: [RC] [RC] [RC] Ride shortages: maybe it's time...(long)

Nancy says:
"I also don't understand how having 25 mile only rides would solve any "ride
shortage"? Would there be more 25 mile riders show up if they didn't have to
ride with 50 milers? If a ride isn't economically feasible with combined
distances, it's unlikely to be so with one distance only."

I agree with this.

A friend and I put on a one-day 30-mile CTR (first timers) with a novice 15
and we did OK (didn't lose money), not as well as we likely would have for a
two-day 50 or 60. The weather was great, which was a godsend. Definitely
wouldn't have made it on just the entry for the lower distance. In
hindsight, it was an awful lot of work for one day -- offering a longer
distance over two days wouldn't have been that much more. Lots of sunk costs
and time already spent prior to the event. I suspect many endurance RM's
feel the same way, that they might as well add distance options because the
time and money have already been spent for the 50-mile distance.

The other consideration is that my motivation for putting on the event was
that I wanted to do it for the people who have been involved in the sport of
distance riding for years and years. That's the core group that supports
every ride in the region and thank goodness for them! Yeah, I really liked
seeing the new faces for the novice distance -- some of them will move up
and we need them to keep the distance riding sports going -- but the
foundation of any ride is that hard-core group who tend to ride the longer
distances. A lot of those riders at the novice distances never move up.
That's fine, there's space for everyone, but competitions can't be built
around the fickle or the non-committed.

The "vibe" at a CTR is different than an endurance ride which is why I think
the one-day 30 CTR worked out OK. The people that CTRs attract are more
patient than LDer's. I'd hate to see what camp would look like at around
1:00 or 2:00 p.m. if it was an LD only ride! Ghost town!!


"In our area, riders are just as apt to ride 25 as 50, depending on how they
and their horses feel that day. We have husband/wife combos as well as
friends who normally travel together who ride different distances at the
same rides.  Historically in OCER it seems we'll have an influx of riders
who start in 25's, with fewer riders in the 50. By the next year most of
them move up or quit the sport, and the 50's have more entries. Then it
starts all over again."

I haven't been around long enough to observe this, I'll have to take your
word for it. But, at least at the endurance rides I've been to, the entry in
the LD has been larger than the entry in the 50. That might be due to the
difficulty of the terrain over which the ride is held near here vs. where
most entrants can train (not very challenging terrain).


"Hiring a vet for 1/2 day 25 will cost just as much as a whole day."

Maybe, maybe not.


"They often spend more time explaining things to the newer riders."

Very true. My experience as a CTR ride manager was that the new riders take
LOTS and LOTS of time. For vets, managers, help... everybody.


"In our area most rides give out the same awards to each distance."

Are you talking completion awards? Yes, in this area, we also tend to give
the same completion award to all distances. The reason is simple: quantity
discounts. The higher the quantity, the lower the cost per item. Also, most
items have minimum orders. It would be more costly to order two separate
completion awards than a large quantity of just one.

Now if you're talking placing awards, I see no reason for them to be the
same for all distances!


"25 mile rides still have lower entry fees, though that is changing as ride
manager's realize it costs just as much for that 25 miler as a 50."

Um...I disagree. You're confusing price, which is based on supply and demand
and cost. A few variable costs and lots of fixed costs at a ride. The 50 is
already there. The trail is marked, the porta-loos are there, the campsite
is there and the help is there. An extra vet might have to be hired to cover
the 25's, but only if there is an extraordinarily huge entry. Most rides
have two vets -- if the rider numbers get up past 75 or so, those are two
very hard working vets for a few hours until the 25's are through, I'll give
you that! Water might be a variable cost if it must be hauled in. I'm
probbly missing variable costs.

OK, for the sake of debate, let's talk about a ride with an entry of 50 with
20 being 50 mile riders and 30 being LD. 2 vets can do this. 2 vets would
have been hired for the 50 anyway. The order minimum for the completion
award was 50. Enough water in one tank for everyone.

So everything that is in place for the 50 can be used for the LD. These are
fixed costs, they are sunk costs, meaning they must be paid no matter what.

So tell me how adding the 25 adds more cost beyond the costs of envelopes
and some baggies and the cost to copy a few maps? Time cost? You bet.
Adminstrative headaches. Yup! More newbies in the lower distances equals
more time and attention by staff, more heart palpations, more high blood
pressure. The attention needed for lower distances the day of the event is
only slightly less per person averaged across the entire entry (some are old
riders on a new horse, some just showed up without a clue) when it's all
said and done than the 50's will likely require.

So, now we come to price and the ride manager has a dilemma. It's all about
what's being offered and the demand for what's being offered. The higher the
price, the lower the participation. One reason to consider setting the price
of an LD equal to the price of the endurance ride is if the campsite is
small, if the RM doesn't want to hire another vet (ride vets are hard to
find!) or if the RM just doesn't want the headache of a large LD entry.
That's their decision. If they set the fee high because they don't want the
headache, they are likely not maximizing revenue.

OTOH, if the campsite can accommodate, a good-sized LD entry attracted by
the right price could bring in lots of money. The LD price can be within $15
or $20 of the 50, and people will come out in the same numbers as they would
if it were less. Set it higher than that, and the numbers will decline
unless the ammenities are unbelieveable or there is no other choice in the
region.

In any case, I don't think it's a cost issue and I don't think that setting
the entry fees for LDs as high as 50's is good for the sport.



"I want them ALL at my rides. United we stand, divided we fail. And that's
not typo!"

I definitely agree with that!

Deanna (Ohio)


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