The assumption is that those methods are a last resort, after trying more humane methods, but those methods were the mainstay of "training" for a longtime. May of these methods are just "shortcuts" because people won't be open to other methods.Understanding and using pecking order are a lot different than terrifying or brutalizing an animal. I've seen alot of horses paranoid of men, but women can handle them. I've seen animals hurt people because someone was taking out their temper and disapointment on them. I've seen a "childs trainer " beat a horse in crossties cause it won't stand still. Later one of her young sensitive horses , got beat in the same crossties by a student and her, it flipped over and had brain injury and died,( was a valuable horse. )The trainer just "didn't have time to take with the horse ,and used the "force um' attitude" Thats' what she'd been taught. Plus it is faster. Course I'd been run away with by one of her school horses, cause I had to carry a crop, and the horse was terrified of crops. There are alot of mishandled , dangerous horses out there, usually from ignorance and laziness, or from the "I just want to dominate something 'types. This isn't to say I don't understand I may have to "make "my horse do something he doesn' want to do. ie.: He tries to bolt on the trail, do I start beating him? or make him do 20 meter circles for 20 minutes? I can make him "uncomfortable " enough practicing a "conditioned response behavior", so he thinks, "Oh , no, not those stupid circles again." It's like crate training a puppy, vs. the swat with a newpaper, rub their nose in it, thing. I have a pound puppy who cringes everytime you bring out the doggie brush. How long does it take to undo abuse? All said and done, there are nasty dangerous horses out there that may be "untrainable". Neurotic, crazy, men haters. And they may need a nice jail or be put down. Not go to some unsuspecting person who can't handle them. Part is distingushing the "I don't want too" attitude from the "I'm afraid, don't hurt me" , many people take a fearful horse and treat it like "it's just trying to pull one over on me. Howard does have a lot on his plate , taking on an abused horse that needs alot of work. Training and "trust building" do take time. And training is something we do every time we are with our horses.I just plead for thinking it through...Laurie and Rascal (who can be pigheaded) ----- Original Message ----- From: Heidi Smith Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 8:01 PM To: Sullivan; Howard Bramhall; ridecamp Subject: Re: [RC] Break Their Neck Training >Why is it important for horses to lead, tie, load, have their feet and mouth handled, etc? Lets not even adress riding safely, lets assume a person wants a pasture pet. So....what happens when the horse needs worning, shots, feet done, transporting and YOU, as an owner can't make horsie behave? You then put the danger on the farrier, vet, hauler, etc. Are YOU willing to trim this horse and promise to do all vet work yourself? No, you are going to expose THEM to this dangerous animal. Well put. I've had to deal with way too many of those as a veterinarian, and it can be pretty hair-raising. Given the choice between my life and theirs, I'll choose mine every time. There ARE horses out there that are just plain renegades. Yes, we all need to use methods that are as humane and risk free as possible, but when push comes to shove, if the horse wants to commit hara kiri rather than submit to being handled, don't blame the person who was at least willing to try to reform them. Heidi
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