Ridecamp: Re: [RC] carbohydrate fuel

RE From Susan's G long post

Well we are on the same trail here, for the most part.. so here goes.

I do believe the thinking on this subject is changing somewhat, we see
more papers presented by very knowledgeable equine nutritional
professionals. It just took time for the concept to mature. This is
not evil as Dr Geor has said , but also note the cautions. That
is you may not want to let your horse chow down 5 lbs of corn or sweet feed
in a VC no more then dump 5 oz of a concentrate into him. Small doses
over short periods of time does work and work well.

I have found that giving the 1 to 2 oz carbs at  a VC  when the loops are
within the hour to 1-1/2 max long-  that is 10 to 15 miles, I have done
OK.

(I have never really pre-loaded. I really think that sets you up for a
tie.. I only want to fuel the burn-  the need to keep the free glucose
up to working levels.. thus I will not take it out of the internal
stores. )
However when the distance to the VC is over 15 miles - I carry at
least 2 oz with me in two doses. I re-use those pile of LYTE-NOW
syringes. Work better then anything I have found.

Since the elyte I use is about 20% or more - PerfWin - I am getting a
good shot of dextrose from that, the LyteNow has less. I tend to use
LyteNow on trail - easy and fast uptake. If the loops are long I will take a 2 oz
dose of PerWin mixed. I dose 1/2 tube LyteNow every hour. If hot or
going fast he gets a full dose.
If I am out for more then 1-1/2 hour - I give him 1 oz carbs.

Now by keeping   all 'systems' the working well - blood glucose at or around
105mcg/dl- I have found he drinks more and every time we get to
water. He also REALLY wants to eat   more. I assume it is because he is
not reserving glycogen since he is taking in about the same as he
burns, thus the guts are working and he needs to keep them full -
I think it increases his appetite - and I would expect that he is
hungry. Did that make sense? If a horse is kept in proper elyte and
glucose and water balance they WILL want to eat. If they dont eat, he
is trying to fix a problem internally. Those horses with that have the far away
look at a VC are very low in blood glucose. They rest eat and levels come up
and they look fine.. I just dont let the levels drop below 'normal'

 I have in the past taken blood GL levels at the VC, but most
of my testing has been at home. I understand there is a move underway
 to prevent riders from getting or taking a blood test to read parameters such
as this, so I may not be able to get data at rides in the future.
Without a crew I never have the time anyway. I of course dont agree,
but rules are rules??

On trail we have not been
stopping much to munch, but IF  we find great grass, I stop for 60 sec
and let him eat - as long as he eats we stay.. depending on the plan
of the day- 60 sec seems like forever - but I clock it and if we are
doing well and he wants more we go another minute at grazing.

I carry one bag of those small carrots in a small belt bag along with
the peppermint candy. He loves both. So we hit a water stop - I am
off with the elyte tube in teeth and when he comes up from the water
he gets a dose, then normally he will go back to drinking.. if not I
flush his mouth with a syringe of water.
I give him a handful of carrots and a peppermint. Thus all the salt
is gone and the mouth etall is clear and NO salt burn..
I am getting to the point where I can dose him from the saddle and
give the carrots and mints in 30 secs. He then relates the GOOD tastes
of carrots and mints to the eyltes.. of course the carbs he  loves.

In the VC I know we are ok IF he wants to eat as soon as I jump off..
He is not picky if all is well. I prefer him to eat BP and rolled
oats.. but sometimes YOUR feed is the best..:)
I will offer sweet feed also. Something that he did NOT have in camp.
Then try to get to the hay or grass.. sort of what ever he wants..
trade with neighbor etc..
I have found If I let him eat something and stuff carrots at him he
recovers faster. I may, if things are going right, give a dose of carbs
on the way to the VC. I only do it ONE OZ per shot..
If the hold is longer and the next loop long- sort of  the 'it all
depends' rule - I have given 2 oz out the gate..
The elytes I give during the hold while he eats.. that PefWin is so
easy to use, they all love it - just have to feed LOTS.. I have given 4
oz per VC   plus the on trail dose. Remember I get a dextrose load
from the elytes.
I think I like a 30 minute hold time best of all.. if we are doing
well and I am not having problems.
If things are not going right - I
stay longer or until I have done whats needed -
I think over 40  minutes is counter  productive - the horse comes off the 'peak'
and lets down too much..
now I AM assuming there is nothing wrong.. I would
prefer to keep the systems up to 'speed' - thats the trade off let
them really drop and rest and see if they crash or keep them reved up
and ready to go and read the signs and listen to the vet calls - read
your card.. I like to listen to gut sounds right after the vet check
so I know what a 'B' is.. and IF I think its normal - I want to only
use my ear no scope.. If I can here the guts then we are OK.

(I see the big races doing short stops, just  a Vc and a quick re-fuel.
While it may not be good for some, if the systems are kept going they
do OK. I think they do more VC with shorter holds, sort of makes
sense. Like it was done the PanAm last year. Should be interesting to
see how the WEC is run and how our team does.)

I have found last year the controlled and managed use of   carbo
fuel source has really done wonders for his whole performance.
Only time I pushed his envelope was at a 55m ride last Nov. We came a bit
close to over doing it. Took 20 minutes to hit the 60 pulse, we raced
in.  I used the most carbs ever at this 'race' it was NOT a ride..I
used 3 oz at the last check for the run in. Plus 2 oz after we
finished.

The really fast top riders have been to known to use up to 4 oz per VC..
gutsy even for me..plus the few who use simple sugars. Qts of pancake
syrup and POUNDS of applesauce.

I dont know if we will get back to faster rides  this year, I plan on a
slow come back, but I no reservations about the protocol I have been
using for the past 4  or 5 years.  The rides this weekend are both LDs
30/30 so we shall see how we both do.
I will ride very conservative both days. Should be just a trail ride?
As I told someone - I have the 'first ride nerves' again..

-- 
 Roger                          mailto:roger@xxxxxxxxxxx


> From: "Susan Garlinghouse" <suendavid@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [RC]   carbohydrate fuel
> 
> 
not. >>g< Discussion of the carbs is a heck of a lot more interesting and
>> relevent than most of what I'm getting on here lately...and it doesn't
>> lend itself to mindless chit chat.
> 
> I agree with Angie, so she and I can start a polite public discussion and
> anyone else can join in or not, as they please. :-)
> 
>>Are they fueling these horses with
>> carbo-charge.  Does less hold time benefit them?  Will a horse's gut
>> continue to move with just carbs or must he not EAT?
> 
> I don't know all of the FEI horses/riders, but I talk to a pretty fair
> number of them via private chats.  Some are on carbo products, some aren't.
> It really is an individual thing and one protocol doesn't work for every
> horse.



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