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    Re: [RC] Will suppliments test and wound dressings - Lisa Redmond


    Joane states "I suspect if many of them tested, we would be seeing more positive tests."
     
    It isn't whether or not the active ingredient tests, it's whether there's a test in use for competition testing that catches it.  I have to assume that in the interest of time the drug tests are chemical in nature--gas or high-pressure liquid chromatography, mass spec, that sort of thing.  If the active ingredient doesn't belong to the same chemical families as the targeted drugs, it won't test positive in traditional chemical tests if the tests used don't cover it's chemical family.  Conversely, you could feed an herb which contains something chemically related to a banned substance, and get a false positive even if it actually has no effect in the animal at all.  It depends on the sensitivity of the tests being used to subtle diffrences in chemical structure.  If the test looks for the main chemical structure, for example, and not the specific side chains which cause the drug to work, then you could get a false positive.
     
    For example:  Suppose I wanted to test an animal for perphenazine, and it hadn't had perphenazine but had been dewormed the day before with phenothiazine.  Phenothiazine is the parent compound of perphenazine, piperazine, and acepromazine.  If I use a chemical test that's solely based on the presence of the phenothiazine ring structure, the animal will test positive for perphenazine (this is purely hypothetical, as I know nothing about specific tests for either one).  On the other hand, if I incubate it  and perphenazine in cultures of rat pituitary cells, then test the culture medium for prolactin, the test on the phenothiazine would be expected to come back negative for perphenazine.  Same chemical family, vastly different activities.
     
    It goes back to the magical triangle of research...Speed, Accuracy, and Precision.  You can have any two of the 3 , but never all three.  Choosing speed means you sacrifice either accuracy or precision--usually the precision on the drug tests is pretty high, so that leaves accuracy as the sacrificial lamb.  Thus, false positives. The chemical test in my example probably would only take as long as running it through a piece of computerized analytical equipment.  The cell culture would take several days from establishing the cells in culture, incubating the treatment, then testing the medium for the key element--and prolactin assays take about 2 to 3 days just for that assay. In this case, speed would be sacrificed for accuracy.
     
    The one thing you WON'T see as being acceptable would be sacrificing precision...a test that can't reliably produce a positive result on the target drug is useless.
     
    So it's a catch-22.  I think the most logical practice to follow is "when in doubt, don't."  If an herbal supplement is touted as having "The same effects as....." then chances are it's going to work at the same active site or somewhere very similar.  The fact that it doesn't show up on a standard test for the product it mimics is, in my opinion, irrelevant.  It has the same effect, thus, the intent is the same and perhaps is worse,  if the point behind using the supplement is to dodge the testing and to have an animal compete when it's health or soundness may actually be compromised. 

    Replies
    [RC] Will suppliments test and wound dressings, Joane Pappas White