Hmmm, Susan, you're the last person I'd argue with about anything, but I would like to point out that I'm just doing this test with one horse; not two or three. I'm putting different riders with different weights on the same horse and I'm trying to keep everything else equal, during the separate training rides. I'm only changing the weight on the horse, everything else is relatively the same. So, I don't see how your comparison with a Subaru and a supercharged 454 dually (you must be doing very well btw to own such a vehicle, lol) equates to my heart rate study. I'm not comparing two different horses, I'm just comparing the heart rates from the same horse with two different riders. I've been doing this testing for two months now, the numbers keep coming up the same. I really don't think it's that far fetched to think that a heavier rider makes a greater demand from a horse. If you were to travel in your Subaru 200 miles with 2,000 lbs of cargo weight and compare that with a trip, using the same vehicle and driving the same distance, with 1,000 lbs of cargo, my guess is your fuel consumption (energy) would be less with the lighter weight. I think the same applies to the horse. BTW, is Howard the bull still a bull, or is he now a steer? Just curious. cya, Howard (checking to see if I still have mine) ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Garlinghouse Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:20 PM To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Howard Bramhall Subject: Re: [RC] Mad Science Okay, Howard...
Based on this same analogy, my little sewing machine Subaru that cruises at
2000 rpm should be the ultimate performance machine, as long as you don't
pile both dogs plus groceries into the back seat. OTOH, my truck, a
supercharged 454 dually, can pull 20,000 lbs at 90 mph, but the rpms will be
around 3200-3500 to do it. Does that mean the little Subaru is the better
performance machine? More efficient, yes. But as long as both vehicles
have a gas tank of sufficient and appropriate size to supply more than
enough fuel for the job at hand, who cares which one is more efficient?
Sorry, it's a nice idea but doesn't pan out physiologically. I can make
alot of arguments of how weight *does* affect performance, but you'll have
to go some better to make a heart rate argument fly. Glad to see you back
on RC, though.
Susan G
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Bramhall" <hwb67@xxxxxxx>
To: <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:05 AM
Subject: [RC] Mad Science
OK, my heart monitor results are now official. Sit back folks, I got some
numbers for ya'll. And, yes, this is real science, Tom Iver's style. I've
injected, dissected, inspected, and rejected (I love Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's
Restaurant") to come up with those accurate figures that any Enron or
Worldcom executive would appreciate. And, I've tried my best to keep it
simple. I've used George Bush ("accounting is complicated") as a model, for
understanding.
I have a 5 and a half year registered Paint mare. Yes, I realize she's not
an Arab, but she is doing quite well and I've owned her since she was 6
months old. We've done nothing but trail riding on her, so those fast
twitch and slow twitch muscles have developed for endurance since day one
(another of Iver's theories). Anyway, here's the stats.
Jennifer, my daughter, weighs in at 107 (with tack; yea, I know it's
awesome) and me, I weigh in at 202 (with tack; a 6 pack short of being a
heavyweight). In the interests of me seeing my 50th birthday next year,
I've left out the stats on my wife, so, for now, we'll just go with me and
Jen.
The weather conditions and times of our training ride are quite similar on
all sessions. Hot and sticky. We do get up early, because Florida is a
steam bath this time of year, to start out with temperatures below 80. But,
that does not last long. If we leave the house at 7 AM and ride for 4
hours, the temp goes up, the humidity goes down (not much). By the time we
pull in, back to the barn, the temp is 85, the humidity 70 percent. When we
leave the barn in the morning the temp is 74, the humidity 90 percent).
These are averages, but they don't change much.
Heart rates: I discount the first 30 minutes. Princess, my Paint, prefers
the trot, and it's a good one. My Arabs have to canter to keep up with her.
I'd estimate her speed to be close to 10 MPH, but it does vary depending on
obstacles encountered while traveling, like bears, deer, alligators, and
snakes (oh my!). In the case of deer flies attacking, her speed picks up to
12 MPH.
With Jen, in this gait, her heart rates varies from 106 to 110 beats per
minute. Quite impressive, especially after 3 hours of riding. I do love
this horse!
With me, 133 to 138 BPM. I can get her down below 130, but only if I slow
her down some (slower trot). These numbers are pretty consistent.
Broken down into percentages, this is what I've come up with. Using Jen's
weight as the base, the difference between her's and mine is 88 per cent.
Using my weight as the base, the difference is 47 percent (she's 47 per cent
lighter than me or I'm 88 percent heavier than she is). The difference in
the heart rate numbers follows (what formula is this guy using here?) as
such: When I ride the BPM is 20.6 % higher, using 136 as the base number;
when Jen rides her numbers are 24% lower than mine, using 108 BPM as the
base. This translates into 4.611 lbs per one percentage point heart rate
difference, using my numbers as the base, or 3.96 lbs per one percentage hea
rt rate difference, using Jen's numbers as the base. Are you with me so
far? lol.
So, using my theory, for every 4.285 lbs (average of 4.611 & 3.96)
difference, between riders, there will be a one percent depletion in the
horse's performance with the heavier rider. Now, I know the heart rate
isn't the only parameter in how a horse is doing, but it's still the best
measurement we can use while riding. Plus, I have to have some rational
reason for sending Roger all this money for these heart monitors.
I have had similar results with the two Arabs. I don't have any numbers,
for comparison, with my Saddlebred, because no one but me will ride "El
Whacko." All I can say is his numbers are way up there, but I have found a
gait that will keep him below 140. I won't even leave the house, riding
him, without a heart monitor. He's the only horse I own that will go over
180 in a good moving canter. I could not imagine what his numbers would be
in the mountains!
The terrain where I live is quite flat. When the sand becomes deeper, the
heart rate does increase, more so with me riding her than with Jen. Except
for Dance Line, my Saddlebred, I have a difficult time getting any of my
endurance horses over 150 BPM down here, even in a gallop. This tells me
two things: 1) my guys are in good shape 2) I need to move to the mountains.
So, that's it. You tiny hiney wimmen have a distinct advantage (as if you
didn't know this already); I know it and now ya'll know it too. If you're
at a ride, and you notice the heavyweight riders kind of taking it easy or
taking extra time to sponge and cool off their horse, at the vet check, now
you might understand why. Weight makes a heavy difference. haha.
Next week, respiration! lol.
cya,
Howard (now you know!)
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