Re: Re: Re: Re: hoof soreness

["Cheryl Newbanks" <canewbanks@earthlink.net>]

Actually you didn't answer my question which was have you ever done an
endurance ride?  It was pretty basic, a simple question.  It's the main
reason why I don't hang out much on Ridecamp because there are many
endurance wanna be's and we never know who we are talking to.  Though I do
read the posts from riders I respect and have known since this list's start
10 years ago!

And since you didn't answer my question I will still humor you and tell you
who I am! I've had horses all my life and I'm 46 now, I spent 13 of those
years on the harness race tracks working with all types of lameness's. I've
also worked as a vet tech on the track after I got done my horses in the
morning, I drove around with vets I knew for free to learn!    I know how to
track and detect a lameness way before it becomes too big a problem, in fact
I track so obsessively that when I ride with my vet friend I'm not allowed
to look at her horse because she knows I'm always tracking it!  I've done
endurance for the last 5 years, though I've only done about 750+ or - miles
including ld's. You can look me up on the AERC results.   Right now I am not
competing because I've had back surgery from all the years of trotting and
conditioning but I will be back in the saddle this spring guaranteed!  Due
to my Harness Track background I do have a clue on how to get ANY horse in
condition properly and I've mentored quite a few people in my area in this
sport, including our equine vet we have here.  I am also pretty good at
shoeing problems as I've spent many an hour in the blacksmith shop with my
STB's.

So there are my qualifications, where's yours?  How do you qualify yourself
capable of telling us what is right and what is wrong for our horses?  And
if you think that every thing you do, even on your conditioned horse causes
pain how do you ever justify to yourself being on this list?  You weren't
talking about wear and tear earlier you were talking about pain if I recall!
My horses are not in pain when they are done a competition, though they may
be stiff from all the exercise, I fully expect that, heck I'm slightly stiff
the next day too.  But they easily walk out of it.  There is a huge
difference between being stiff and being in pain.  If you did an endurance
ride you'd soon learn that!

And oh by the way here is the post you sent that says in clear English the
words masking pain!  Read your last sentence it's right there.

Cheryl Newbanks


----- Original Message -----
From: Cheryl Shelton <toltallyice@onewest.net>
To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:33 PM
Subject: RC: hoof soreness


> Okay I truly hope for this to be my last post on this for the year!! I
will
> try very hard to not respond even if someone directly questions something
> I've said.
>
> IMO, if you ride your horse 50 or 100 miles whether shod, shod and padded,
> shod with hoof boots, barefoot with hoofboots or barefooted.... your horse
> IS going to have sore feet!! I have a feeling if you asked a marathoner if
> their feet hurt after a marathon the answer would be YES... in spite of
the
> best, most advanced running shoes technology can offer or money can buy.
IMO
> if you pound your feet (or your horse's feet) on the earth for mile after
> mile after miles... your feet ARE going to be effected. If you think your
> horse's feet are any different, IMO, you ARE in denial. Plain and simple.
If
> you say your shod horse's feet are pain free after a long endurance
race...
> for me this only proves the theory that horse shoes are masking the
horse's
> ability to feel the pain, soreness, damage, what ever.
>
> Cheryl
>


----- Original Message -----
From: Cheryl Shelton <toltallyice@onewest.net>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 11:03 AM
Subject: RC: Re: Re: Re: hoof soreness


> Well I don't know this Cheryl Newbanks person either but I have a question
> for her...
>
> Do you know the difference between a horse and a motorcycle? Just curious
> because if you did you would (possibly) understand that any biological
> living organism (as opposed to being a machine, although even a machine
> generates wear and tear through the course of normal operation, which you
> can excellerate by pushing the machine to higher performance) creates wear
> and tear (can we call this damage) on some level to it's cells when
> generating movement, even merely by the act being alive and maintaining
body
> functions. IMO an endurance race is a huge leap beyond what is normal for
> the horse (a living organism) and way beyond what would be a normal amount
> of wear and tear on his structures in a day. Luckily living organisms are
> able to repair damaged tissues or you'd never be able to do a second race
on
> your horse, if you made it through conditioning. If you truely think an
> organism can put out the effort needed to complete a 50 or 100 mile
> endurance race without occuring any wear and tear you are, IMO, in denial.
> If you think wear and tear generates no soreness, well I'm just at a loss.
> And if you believe there is wear and tear but that this phenomenon
> miraclulously stops at the conanary band and the hoof is exempt from
damage,
> the structure likely taking the most stress from the effort, well then
> again, IMO, you're in denial. But hey if denial is neccesary for someone
to
> feel comfortable asking so much of their horse, and it works for you and
> your horse... if it ain't broke don't fix it. But personally I feel
> accepting that damage IS done, when a horse is asked to travel 100 miles
at
> speed, would be in the best interest of the horse.
>
> Also please show me where I said a "horse" can mask pain.
>
> Cheryl
>
> > I don't know this Cheryl Shelton person but I have a question for her,
> have
> > you ever even done an endurance ride of any length in a REAL
competition?
> > Just curious because I think if you had Heidi wouldn't have to be
> explaining
> > what she did to you below.  Horses can't mask pain, it's really that
> simple!
> >
> >
> >
> > > > If you think your
> > > > horse's feet are any different, IMO, you ARE in denial. Plain and
> > simple.
> > > If
> > > > you say your shod horse's feet are pain free after a long endurance
> > > race...
> > > > for me this only proves the theory that horse shoes are masking the
> > > horse's
> > > > ability to feel the pain, soreness, damage, what ever.
> > >
> > > Horses are notoriously honest.  If they have pain, they compensate for
> > > it--by limping, by shortening their stride, whatever it takes to move
> with
> > > less discomfort.  If a horse moves out willingly in a big flying trot
> > after
> > > completing a 100-miler, you don't need ANYONE to tell you he is pain
> > > free--he is telling you that himself.  And once again, if his nerve
> > endings
> > > are intact (neither surgically altered nor drug altered), there is no
> > > "masking" of pain--if he isn't feeling it, IT AIN'T THERE!!  (Refer
back
> > to
> > > the definition of "pain.")  What the shoes have done is PREVENT
DAMAGE,
> > not
> > > mask pain.  These two things are NOT one and the same.  And riding the
> > horse
> > > without causing him damage is precisely what endurance riders try to
do.
> > >
> > > Heidi
>
>
>
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