Re: New Magic/Scratches

["Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>]

One of the final treatments for scratches that don't seem to respond to
external treatments is parenteral antibiotics - penicillin I believe the
most common, but perhaps it is another, the vets can jump in here. To the
best of my knowledge systemic fungicides are not used. It may not be a true
fungus. You may have a better idea of where Dermatophilus congolensis fits
into the fungus vs. others - my understanding is that it is something of a
hybrid. Staph is definately a bacterium. Both are sensitve to povidone
iodine. Ringworm, which is a true fungus, as I understand it is also
sensitive to povidone iodine - but I never had to deal with that one. Other
fungi can be very difficult to treat - nail bed fungi for one. I am a little
supprised at the use of bleach as I understand that it damages tissue.

Sometimes the original damage to the skin can be cause by a photosensitive
agent in which case zinc oxide is definately beneficial - but it has some
value as barrier in other cases.

Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "beth glover" <bgloverhrsewmn@hotmail.com>


> Okay, I have to jump in because, I work a lot with systemic fungal and
bacterial infections. I'm wondering if anyone with the "scratches" problem
has ever got a wound culture done, to find out specifically what they were
dealing with.   Someone mentioned that their "fungal infection had morphed
into a bacterial one." This is a little bit correct and a lot wrong.  Just
for fun, remember the old classification systems thrust upon you in biology
classes?  Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species
(Domineering King Phillip Can Order Five Green shirts)    Well, Fungus is in
the Domain "Eukarya", and Bacteria has it's own domain. Fungus has it's own
kingdom, as do plants and animals.  Now that we have the genome mapped
though, things may get wierd. The problem with treating Fungal infections is
that they are closely related to us humans, genetically. Also other animals.
Fungus being smarter than a bottle of antis! eptic, can "hide" itself, as
part of the host animal. Treatments to root out the fungus, can make the
patient feel very sick.  The bacterial infections are coming along to ride
piggyback on a a compromised situation.  Or visa versa!  One organism sets
up shop, causes infection and tissue breakdown, and the second organism
finds it very easy to grow in that disrupted tissue.  The fungal infections
can become chronic, some of the organisms may become resistant to treatment.
This is similar to antibiotic resistance...you have to give all of the
medicine, or a few organisms  may survive the treatment, and then reproduce
themselves as a new improved family of organisms that cannot be touched by
the same old Rx.
>   I liked reading about the treatment with nitrofurazone, thiabendazole
and DMSO. Since you can't (and really wouldn't want to) treat the animal
with IV therapy, this sounds good.  It mystifies me though about all the
lotions people are putting on their animals.  I suppose some of them may
create a waterproof barrier, but I sure will not put organic (fish oil)
creams on the creatures I care for, prefering inorganic creams such as  Pure
zinc oxide for instance.
>    Generally, when we do wound care, we like to keep wounds dry and open
to air and light. Which may be impossible in ankle deep mud.  (If I had that
as a problem, I would search for a way to let the"patient" achieve dryness.
In desperation, I may even try bringing the animal into a building, using a
lamp or a hair dryer perhaps.)  We have been very happy with Dakins
Solution, for suppurating wound infections.  It is 10% sodium Hypochlorite
(Bleach) in sterile saline (salt water 9%) You could make up an approximate
of that solution, keep it in a jar, and carry it out to the barnyard, paint
it on with a paintbrush. Clean the paintprush in boiling water afterward.
Make a new fresh batch of Dakins daily, don't put the dirty old brush in the
same jar for a week.
>      Another question to ask yourself, when your equinne friend got
infected, did you throw away the old brushes in the horse trailer that you
used on him, or even clean them very well in a bleach solution, or are the
dirty old things still out there, being used on every creature in the barn.
It may be a good idea to use individual grooming equipment for each animal,
put their name on it, and keep them disinfected.  Then you won't spread or
reinfect with disease.
>        Another interesting treatment is the use of teatree oil.  This can
be found in Miracle coat, waterless horse shampoo spray, or other grooming
products.  We got some in a soap base from Trader Joes market.  It
supposedly has antifungal, and antibacterial properties.  It does work
really well to get greasy crud out of tails, and udders and such, but rinse
it well because it can be irritating, also to the groom!
>    Good luck to all, and thank you for the interesting and informative
chat!  Beth
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