Re: For Susan G - supplement question

["C. Osborne" <whiteokarabians@email.com>]

Again Susan, thanks for the input. Suppliment wise, I've always
though..enough is enough, and too much is bad.  And yes, symantics correctly
used 'average' is what I was meaning when I said 'balanced' ;). However,
wanted to be sure there wasn't some special magical reason to use it for
endurance/CTR.

Now, my late vet (God Bless his Soul), John Thomas just hated all the mixed
feeds and thought that most people kept their horses too fat.  His
grain...called "Doc's mix" at the one mill that mixes it here..is cracked
corn + ProPel (protien pellets) to make it up to 10-11% protein.  Doc rode
endurance and vetted for them before he got sick...he's got a filly by
Bette's stallion as a matter of fact...we fed that mix for a while, but it
took soooo much to keep the weight on a couple of my kids that the higher
protien (12-14%) mixed feeds did better w/ less.

::Sigh:: Doc swore that horses don't need that much protien, and the feed
'guy' says that Doc should stick to fixin horses and leave the feedin part
to the feed companies :).

C
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
To: C. Osborne <whiteoakarabians@email.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: For Susan G - supplement question


>
> > While on the topic of supplements/electrolytes/salts...
> >
> > I've heard several people mention supplements w/ their rations--not
> > necessarily here on RC, but 'around'.  Now, in a balanced diet don't
> horses
> > get what they need w/out supplimentation?  Are they just supplimenting
the
> > horses who are working and need it, or is this a preventative thing?
Now,
> > electrolytes I get...no explaination needed :).  We feed trace mineral
> salt
> > blocks out in the pasture free choice..
>
> Well, you mentioned 'balanced' and that, by defnition means that it
includes
> every nutrient the horse needs in the right amount and ratios.  However, I
> assume what you meant was does an average diet supply that, or do you need
> to add more?
>
> It used to be that just good grass hay, fresh water and some salt was all
> any horses needed.  Mostly, that's still true.  However, the hay we're
> getting these days isn't always the same as it was thirty years ago, just
> because quality can vary widely, as does the soil it's grown in.  Good
> quality, free-choice grass hay still provides the vast majority of the
> nutrients for a normal, adult horse either at maintenance or in
> performance---even intense performance such as endurance horses.  It has
all
> the protein, most of the minerals (usually, with a few exceptions), the
> majority of the vitamins.  What such a diet is generally deficient in is
> just going to be calories/energy.  That you can add by either adding in a
> more concentrated source of calories, as we were talking about in an
earlier
> post---soaked beet pulp and some vegetable oil is a good choice.
>
> So for 90% of the horses out there, and for 90% of the hays available,
just
> free-choice good-quality grass hay, some soaked beet pulp and oil, fresh
> water and plain iodized white salt will provide 99% of the nutrients
needed
> for endurance.  It *is* deficient in a few of the fat-soluble vitamins,
such
> as A & E, both of which would be met if the horse has access to any fresh
> grazing.  If not, than adding one dose of ONE good all-purpose vit-min mix
> will take care of that.  Plus, if your hay happens to fall into a slightly
> deficient category, than a small dose of extra vit-min takes care of that,
> too.  There are some areas where selenium is deficient, and if that's the
> case, then the selenium needs to be specifically supplemented.  And, if
you
> have foot problems, then adding 20 mg of extra biotin per day is often
> helpful.
>
> However, where 99% of the mineral-vitamin imbalances come from is when
> owners with the right intentions start adding in a dab of this powder, and
a
> handful of that supplement, and a scoop of something else---not realizing
> that all these nutrients have interactions with each other, and too much
is
> often as bad or worse as not enough.  There are TONS of supplements out
> there that promise different things---shiny coat, better performance,
> increased fertility, whatever---but they're all just different formulas of
> the same basic ingredients.  If you just feed plenty of good hay, etc as
> described above, plus just one good-quality vit-min mix to fill in any
> potential "holes", plus groom and ride the snot out of them (dontcha love
> these technical terms), then you'll have all the health you can handle
> without having to buy a ton of extra buckets.
>
>
> > Now, I also feed a complete feed (and a ton of it as you all well know
:).
> > Based on the info gained on this thread, I might be researching an
> > alternative to that.  If that is the case, should I be concerned about
> > supplimenting w/ things such as straight oats or beet pulp?
>
> See above.  If you (or anyone else) is feeding a complete feed like
Complete
> Advantage, Omolene, LMF Ener-G....*any* of the commercial "mixes" as
opposed
> to straight commodities such as "oats" or "corn", and if you are feeding
> more than a few pounds of that complete mix, then you don't need to
> supplement with an additional vit-min mix, it's already in there in the
> right amounts and ratios (you do still need to provide salt).  If you're
> feeding commodities, then adding a vit-min mix is a good idea.
>
> And when you work out the economics of feeding a complete mix versus
> commodities, be sure to include the costs of the additional vit-min mix.
It
> often works out that the cost isn't all that different.
>
> Good luck. :-)
>
> Susan G
>
>