Re: RC: DEPRESSED GELDING

[RQuestarabians@aol.com]

In a message dated 09/12/2000 1:21:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
tracey@tbt.co.za writes:

<< Why on earth would anyone give this Depo- Provera shot to a horse,
 especially to a gelding?>
 
 Because he likes to try and kill other horses in order to establish his
 dominance, and to steal their mares.  Not fun at shows.

O.K. there are some training issues to be resolved. I had a gelding exactly 
like this. He would literally try to kill my other gelding when turned out 
with the mares. It was a SERIOUS PROBLEM. In his first endurance rides he 
would try and charge at any other horses that got in his space. That did not 
last very long though. You have to do whatever you can, growl at them, 
whatever it takes, to get their attention on YOU. He needs to learn that this 
is not acceptable behavior anytime under saddle. It is dangerous for you! I 
suggest doing a lot of ground work if you have a hard time convincing your 
horse under saddle. If you don't have his attention on the ground you aren't 
going to have it under saddle. Also, have a buddy help you work other horses 
around him. There are a lot of great natural horsemanship/ behaviorist 
trainers out there like Harry Whitney, Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt . . . I 
recommend reading some of their books or attending a clinic if you can.
As far as the (pasture?) situation with other horses   . . . here is the 
solution that worked for me. . . Just realize that nothing you do will change 
the personality of your gelding, and there are no training methods that will 
carry over how he behaves in the pasture when you are not around to 
intervene. What I did is I temporarily removed the mares from the equation. I 
found a friend that would keep the mares for a few weeks. After a few days, 
my gelding  realized that the mares were gone and calmed down. At that time, 
I gradually began reintroducing my other gelding. Horses are extremely social 
animals and crave companionship. The first postive sign was a  reduction in 
my gelding's degree of aggression (i.e., not charging at the other horse, no 
teeth baring, etc.) Once this occurred, I put the two in adjacent paddocks 
and eventually in a paddock together. Only if and when they have formed a 
successful bond should you try bringing the mares back, and not in a time 
when any of them are in season! Follow the same steps for intoducing the 
mares back to each other 2 geldings. I know this sounds like a lot, but for 
me it was well worth it . The  result was a level of acceptance that has 
prevented any of them from being hurt.
What you need to understand is that the horse's brain that needs to be 
trained. A drug is only masking the problem. I personally do not believe in 
drugs to solve my problems. I am sorry, I just feel very strongly about that. 
Unfortunately, that is the first thing that a lot of  vets push when the 
horse has a problem.  
 
 
 >It is a synthetic progesterone used like the birth control pill in humans
 to cause psedopregnancy ( tricks the body into thinking it is always
 pregnant.) The possible side effects are horrendous in humans>
 
 Before adminstering the drug, I asked my vet about possible side effects.
 He said there were none, so I went with him on it.  He is still adamant that
 Toc's quietness is not depression from the drug but good behaviour coupled
 with something else, hence the blood tests we are running.  He may be wrong,
 and it may very well be the drug, in which case I will have some strong
 words to say to him, but without any proof, I have to go with him.  The
 side -effects in humans may not be found in horses (chemotherapy does not
 cause the side-effects in horses that it does in humans, for example)  I
 also know of other horses who have had this drug administered, without these
 side-effects.  I also spoke to more than one vet about it before giving the
 drug.
Why would you want to chance it. ALL drugs have potential side effects and 
can damage the liver among other things. It's been my experience with drugs 
that a lot of times you aim to solve 1 problem and then it in turn creates 5 
or 10 OTHER problems. I am sure we have some good vets like Heidi out there 
on this forum that can help you out here.  Again, you have to go back to 
square one and ask yourself
what really is this horse's problem? It is his "brain" that needs to be 
trained.
 
 
 I did not walk into this blind.
 
 
 >I once was given the shot and literally almost died from it. This stuff is
 nothing to mess around with for humans or horses.>
 
 I am sorry you had this reaction.  I can't use the pill.  My friend can.
 Doesn't make the drug a no-no for everyone, does it?
 
Not necessarily. Again, it is just my strong opinion. I am very sorry if I 
come off as being "strong." I lost my father when he was 43 years old due to 
the doctors pushing pills down him, I almost died from this depo-provera 
shot, and I once lost a horse that was very near and dear to my heart due to 
a bad reaction to a vaccine. I guess that I have been "hurt" by drugs and 
personally choose to not use them as my first answer. I have learned the 
"hard way"  to research first,  and understand the potential consequences of 
drugs. If you choose to use a drug you've just got to realize that there are 
potentially very bad  consequences that you may have to live with for the 
rest of your life. 
 
 >I strongly recommend trying a more natural alternative to your horses's
 problem for his sake!>
 
 
 Like?  I would really appreciate any input - I prefer natural alternatives,
 as does my vet, but don't know of any.
I haven't had to give my gelding anything to help curb his aggression. You 
probably won't either. I do not know if  Heidi or anyone else,  can you give 
you any suggestions?

Robyn L.
 
  >>