Re: thumps

["Susan Garlinghouse" <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>]

Agree with everything in your post except:

> It is absolutely crucial to give the horse a free choice mineral source
like
> Rushcreek mineral from Advanced Biological Concepts. It keeps the horses
Ca:P
>  balanced at all times.


My answer to that is "oh, phooey".  No offense, but you're buying into a
marketing party line.  Try getting some information from a source that isn't
trying to sell you something.

Susan G


----- Original Message -----
From: <RQuestarabians@aol.com>
To: <guest@endurance.net>
Cc: <Ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 1:22 PM
Subject: RC: thumps


> Thumps I think can be a lot of things in any combination. My endurance
> gelding, Classy, in his early endurance days would Thump no matter how
fast
> or slow I rode.   He would tend to Thump in hot weather not cool weather.
> Many vets at the ride could not figure out why Classy would Thump because
he
> would Thump (sometimes violently) and would otherwise get excellent vet
> scores. After a couple of years,  I met Mike Tomlison DVM, and he
determined
> Classy as a horse that Thumped due to being Hypocalcemia (calcium
deficiency)
> .I was feeding about 50% or more alfalfa hay in his ration back then. Mike
> recommended that I not feed any Alfalfa (high calcium) to Classy in
between
> rides (grass hay only). A few days before the ride, and at the ride,  he
> advised that I could then give him  all the alfalfa he wants. He suggested
> that I add Calcium Gluconate to his electrolytes during the before,
during,
> and after the ride. Once,  he started Thumping (barely) at a vet check and
he
> snapped out of it once he got some Alfalfa in his system. He finished the
> ride with no problems. Over the years I have researched quite a bit on the
> subject to help Classy.
> In a nutshell, this is happening as quoted from EN 10/95 " More then you
ever
> wanted to know about Calcium" by Dane Frazier D.V.M:
> Diets high in calcium to phosphorus ratios inhibit parathormone release

> normal ratios 1:2:1. For example high quality alfalfa hay has a Ca:P ratio
of
> 5:1 and in the very high quality hay, the ratio is 8:1. Ca:P ratio of
grass
> hay is1.2:1(Isn't it amazing that the required Ca:P ratio in the diet of
the
> horse is the same as that found in the diet upon which the wild horse
> evolved?) Therfore, it is very common for horses that are persistant
> "Thumpers" to have alfalfa as the predominate roughage in their diet. They
> are hormonally set up NOT to reabsorb calcium. At rides when the blood
> calcium drops due to calcium and electrolyte loss and inactivation through
> protein binding, they cannot turn around their endocrine control of blood
> calcium levels quickly enough to prevent Thumps."
> I would have considered Classy a chronic "Thumper" in the past. I almost
gave
> up on him thinking that he just couldn't handle endurance (metabolically).
> Barney Fleming DVM and Mike Tomilson helped me out immensly along the way,
> and encouraged me to keep going with him. Over the years with their help
we
> have worked out the bugs I think. Classy is 18 1/2 years old now, and has
not
> Thumped at a ride in well over 2 years. He has done about 750 miles since
> then ( placing quite well ),  ranging from 50's to an extremely tough 80
mile
> ride. Most of these rides were difficult and in the heat. This has been my
> findings in resolving his particular problem with Thumps:
> 1.) Most importantly the horse must go into the ride already balanced Ca:
P
> ratio. It is too late for the body to catch up once the horse is already
> doing the ride. I feed Classy free choice grass, 4 way grain hay ( oat,
> barley, wheat, with a little alfalfa).
> It is absolutely crucial to give the horse a free choice mineral source
like
> Rushcreek mineral from Advanced Biological Concepts. It keeps the horses
Ca:P
>  balanced at all times.
> 2.) I give free choice water and a seperate 25 gallon bucket that I put
> electolyte water in ( I use Ride Rite Electrolytes by ABC ). He chooses
> whether he needs the electrolytes or not. Interestingly enough, on a daily
> basis he drinks 50 percent or more of the electrolyte water over the plain
> water. I have not had to electrolyte him at rides since I have been doing
it
> this way.
>
> Here are things that I have done to help Classy ( not sure if they are
> mandatory or not ) but it has worked for him.
>
> 2.) I do a full body clip on him especially if I know I will be doing a
ride
> in hot weather. I have noticed that he sweats A LOT less then when I don't
> body clip him. I do not know if the excessive sweating contributed  to his
> Thumping in the past.
>
> 3.) When I first started doing endurance on Classy he was 14 years old.
Today
> he is 18 1/2 . He used to be an incredibly anxious overly energetic horse
> (handful). He would waste a lot of energy! He is still "full of it"
although
> not as near much. Possibly this excessive wasting of energy doesn't help
his
> metabolic situation?
>
> I hope some of this information you can use to help solve your horse's
> Thumping. It was a long battle and interesting learning journey for me. If
> you have any questions I will be more than glad to help as much as I can.
> Robyn
>
>
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