A picture is worth a thousand words (was: Up Hill or Down)

["guest@endurance.net" <guest@endurance.net>]

k s swigart katswig@earthlink.net

I have PLENTY of pictures of horses that have shifted their
weight from front to back going down hill (as I also happen
to have some very good down hill horses, and those that
aren't get trained to be that way :)  And yes, depending on the
steepness of the hill, they are virtually sitting down.

And yes, they are at to trot--none at the canter, but not because
I don't do it, but because I haven't had it photographed.  I
can probably arrage to do so though.

And while the general rule of thumb is that a horse carries
about 60% of its weight on the forehand while standing, this
can easily be changed just by raising or lowering the horse's
head, not by much without moving the feet, but change it will.

And analyzing how a horse loads while standing isn't all that
meaningful when you begin to ask how the legs are loading when
it starts moving over uneven terrain...and forget trying to
do the math, it is FAR too complicated :).

Obviously, there are phases of the gallop and canter where the
entire weight of the horse is borne on the hind quarters (the
front feet aren't even on the ground...so no weight bearing
there).  However, it is also true, that there are phases of
the canter and gallop where the entire weight of the horse is
borne on the forehand (which is why some people, mistakenly I
believe, think that endurance horses shouldn't canter or
gallop because they think it is too hard on them).  To determine
in a dynamic model, where the base of support changes during
the course of the stride, what "percentage" of the horse's
weight is supported by which supports (i.e. legs) only makes
sense if you "average" it out over the entire stride (i.e. which
leg is on the ground for how long holding up how much of the
horse's weight).

And there have been several studies done with pressure plates
and video cameras to demonstrate that it is very possible to
shift the horse's weight backwards (some phenominal amount of it
is shifted to the rear legs in the piaffe).

Which brings me to the "extended trot going down hill."

Nope, don't want to do it.

Because...if you want to shift the horse's weight backwards you
must first engage the horse's hindquarters (as in move the back
end further under the horse) and then....COLLECT the horse (as
is shorten the frame, raise the shoulder, and SHORTEN the stride).

This, then, also gets rid of the problem of delaying break over
in front when going down hill.  You can speed up break over merely
by shortening the horse's stride.  Personally, I am not a big
fan of "extended" anything for endurance horses because there is
nothing more guaranteed over the long run to rip your horse's
suspensory apparatus to shreds more than extension, nor to put
it in a position of not being able to recover safely from a
mistep (which is only too common when the terrain is rough and
the body becomes fatigued), but to extend going downhill is pure
lunacy, for the very reason that Tom mentions.

However, that doesn't mean you can't go fast down hill. Many
people confuse "shorten the stride" with "slow down." To help
understand how these two things do not necessarily go hand
in hand, I will now quote from R.H. Smythe's book _The Horse:
Structure and Movement_ (second edition as revised by P.C. Goody)

"It is interesting to realize that however pleasant it may be to
watch a hack, a hunter or a saddle pony taking a long front
stride...the actual length of stride (granting its awsthetic
virtues) makes little, if any, actual different to the rate of
progression.

"The reason is that when the front foot lands slightly farther
forward than usual it is also farther from the shoulder than
if the tride were shorter. It therefore takes slightly longer
for the body to travel of the foot that rests on the ground than
when the front stride is shorter.  Accordingly, the hindlimb has
to waita little; it must move forward a little less rapidly in
order to permit athe forefoot to complete it elongated forward
stride. The actual number of strides per minute is correpondingly
reduced, although each trice may care the body a little further
over the ground.

"So far as speed is concerned, it is a question of whether a smaller
number of longer strides cover the ground more quickly than a
greater number of shorter stridess, and the impression one gets
from extenssive observation is that while a longer stride
look better, give a better ride and is more pleasing in every
way, the short quick stride is more effective."

Which is why Windy (my little 13.2 hh pony), can rip by just
about every other horse out there, when going down hill. She
takes about five steps for every other horse's one.  Yes, she
has to move her legs very quickly, but she doesn't have to
move them very far.  And it is why John Parke on his Icelandic
ponies rips past everybody going down hill (and me with him
when I am on one of them)...and it is why the 12.3 hh BLM mustang
pony that I rode on the last day at Death Valley could out
walk all the Ayrabs he was with.

Because, like the Dartmoor 'running ponies' of a century ago
(also referred to in the book) "Their forelimbs rarely extended
beyon an angle of 25 degrees with the ground in front of or
behind the shoulder joint, and the hindlimbs took similarly
short strides to match the front action."

And it is going down hill where this type of action REALLY
tells a difference.

It is, however, possible to train a horse to shorten its stride
for more safely going down hill...even a 16 hh TB.  As I said,
it is called engagement and collection.

I will send you the pictures.

kat
Orange County, Calif.

p.s.  The reason, I suspect, that most people link collection
with slowing down, is because of the dressage requirement that
a horse maintain the same "tempo" (i.e. steps per minute) while
moving from collected, to regular, to extended paces.  So if
you shorten the stride but keep the same number of steps per
minute, you are indeed going to cover less ground.  But physics
doesn't require this, and endurance horses are not restricted
in this way.


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