RE: Breeding/Cheap Horses

["Kerry Dykes" <KDykes@cpes.com>]

Please will somebody show me where those $3,500 bargains are?

I've had the opportunity to share the experiences of someone looking for a
TRUE heavyweight horse.  Forget a "made" endurance horse -- starting price
on those has been $15K with one at SIX figures.  He's dropped his sights
looking for a prospect with the right bone.  Granted, he's picky about size
(15.1+ sticked height)and substance, but will deal with less than stellar
minds and will pay a fair price for the right horse. He's looking for the
5 - 9 age range, sex is unimportant.  So far the "cheapest" is a 5 y.o. at $
5,500, openly described by the owner as a "whacko", another at $6,500 that
has repeated colic attacks due to allergies, etc., etc.

So if you know of one that fits the general description in the mythical
$3,500 to 8K range, please mail me privately!

Kerry


-----Original Message-----
From: Bette Lamore [mailto:woa@stormnet.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 5:35 PM
To: Douglas M Gifford; ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RC: Breeding/Cheap Horses


Hi Pat
You should probably start at the beginning of the thread and reread.
This is not a
case of US (breeders) against THEM (riders) as MANY of US (myself
unfortunately not included as of yet) ARE THEM! Our remarks as breeders
are
not directed to those who are happy with the bargains they acquired.
They are directed to those who can afford to pay a reasonable price but
offer far less as they feel they have leverage due to the current
market. We "breeders" are not asking for thousands, just a LITTLE MORE
than the COST of what it took to feed the horse until he/she was old
enough for you buyers to evaluate and buy. If it cost most of us
$5-600/year in FEED (plus the year that the dam was in foal, assuming we
own the stud and have NO stud fee--outside the cost of maintaining him,
and the tractor, and the grounds, and the occasional injuries....) we
are looking at $3000-$3600 (Barring NO injuries, training costs, LABOR,
ranch costs etc) by the time the horse is 5 YEARS OLD!!! Now we all know
that the other expenses--advertising, vet, maintaining farm equip.. ETC.
exists so it doesn't take much math to figure out that a price of $3500
(high in this market) is not even going to cover hard costs and allows
NOTHING for labor much less PROFIT???? WHAT IS THAT????
Now what all the breeders have said that I've read on the line the last
few days is that they are no longer breeding for horses to sell. In
other words, the attitude that endurance horses should be give-a-ways
yet should have perfect conformation and good bloodlines has driven
almost all of us out of the breeding end altogether or into just selling
breedings and letting others bear the cost of raising the foals. This is
the only market I am aware of that has this attitude and that is why I
brought it up. I am prone to think that since the majority of endurance
people are good-hearted people who really care about their horses, this
attitude that horses have little monetary worth MUST come from
IGNORANCE. We are attempting to tell you that unless the attitude
changes, you will never find a breeder targeting this market (unless a
millionaire who can afford continuous losses). Would you expect to go
into even WalMart and offer them less than wholesale for their goods? of
course not and yet this happens all the time in the endurance market---
and not so much from the struggling ones--- I'm talking about those who
spend tons of money in trucks, clothes etc.
Here I am on my soap box again but apparently we didn't make it clear
enough the first time. Or did we?? There will always be those who would
rather flea market shop, whether out of financial necessity or for the
joy of "making that killing" and who knows? You could get a Cash. We
breeders have a choice, too, as to whether to target this market for
sales--- we cannot afford to do so for the most part if this trend
continues. I thought I was hearing that more and more riders recognize
the value of shopping for proven bloodlines. If that is so, then the
prices will have to come up to something more reasonable--- even a
$5-6000 range would be far more fair for all concerned if the horse is
suitable--- that is only allowing for approx. $2000 total labor cost (IF
there are NO vet expenses, ads, ...). Now let's see, that is about
$360/year for the 6 years it takes to get a 5 year old--- less than
$30/month, $1/day for our labor. My God, we truly are INSANE!!! WHERE IS
MY PROZAC!!!!
I promise not to harp on this subject again---it was my choice to try
this field and if I choose to breed again for sales, I do so do so with
full knowledge of what to expect--unless I win that lottery! I do have
some leases that fell out so I will have a couple of sales horses
soon--- but not by design.
Bette
Bette Lamore
Whispering Oaks Arabians, Home of TLA Halynov
http://www.stormnet.com/~woa
I've learned that life is like a roll of toilet paper, the closer it
gets to the end, the faster it goes. Smell the roses!


Douglas M Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi guys:
> Boy we must be really bored if we are down to the breeding thing again!
> Take a moment and think about what you are saying here.
> I don't own a brand new home ($100,for more) because I can't afford
> one----but I can afford to buy a older but in good shape one($50,000).
> Does that mean I can't or
> should not buy a home at all. I also cannot afford  to buy a brand
> spanking new car
> but I can afford to buy a fairly well kept used one(same with the truck
> and trailer).
> Why do we get on this issue of the"breeders " wanting more than we want
> to pay.
> If there is a "big name" endurance person out there who wants to spend
> the "big bucks"
> they will.  At this point they are far and few between. Valerie Kanavy
> has the big bucks now
> but did she when she first started in this business. I know that she
> bought "Cash"(Pierez)
> for $500.00 out of a back yard. She liked what she saw (used but
> unusually tempered horse) and bought him. The seller did not raise the
> price because they saw a big name trainer coming.
>     I also think that unlike a home or a car (where you should know what
> you are getting)
> we don't always have that guarantee and that is what makes us look for a
> mature horse in growth. We know what that horse will  be able to do
> conformation wise. Mind wise we will work with some of the weirdist
> personalities horses have if it is what makes them win. There will alway
> be a market for "used horses as long as they live to be in their 20's or
> 30's. I am sorry that the "breeders" cannot get at least what they ask
> for,though as
> these horses hopefully will have good conformation,good growth, good
> ground manners, and personality.
> Just thoughts (no flames necessary)
> Paid $350 for my 1/2 Arab mare 23 years ago (at age 5)
> Paid $450 for my Arab gelding 11 years ago (at age 5)
> I realize the ecconomy and prices have gone up and am willing to
> pay for what I get if I am happy with what I see or feel is in the horse.
> Pat and Razzel in Kansas
>
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Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
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